Mica 0:00

You obviously want to read in your genre, but read outside the genre, read nonfiction, read about the craft. These were all things that ended up helping me. And also setting aside the time for the thing that I really want to do. So writing is something I've always wanted to do. Until I said, All right, I have to be honest with myself. The only time I'm going to get this done is if I get up and write at five o'clock in the morning. That was what changed it. And so that is my now my writing process. It's just getting up, protecting my time in the morning when everybody else is asleep and writing.

Stacy Frazer 0:34

Welcome to the Write It Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formerly repressed creative soul, turned fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach. At Write It Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories. The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability, and the often subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it. This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to help you do that successfully. Join me bi-weekly for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers. Writing a novel is an inside job we do not do alone. Welcome to Write It Scared. I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hey writer, welcome back to the Write It Scared Podcast. I'm your host, Stacey, and this is where we talk about the brave and vulnerable act of writing our novels so that we can do it with more clarity, more confidence, less isolation. Today I'm joined by psychological thriller author and fellow podcaster Mika Merrill Rice to talk about her latest novel, What the Chrysalis Keeps, and what she's learned about herself and the writing process along the way. Despite how much Mika and I laughed during this interview, we actually talked about writing dark and psychologically complex characters and how we both draw on personal experiences to create emotionally authentic fiction. And we discuss how Mika went from writing without a plan to embracing structure and a consistent writing routine. We also chatted about how to navigate self-doubt, make the time for writing when life is full, and why finishing that messy first draft is so important. But before we get into the interview and the courage file for the week, I want to remind you that my spring 2027 seasonal group coaching community will kick off in January, and the interest list is open now. So if you're working on a novel and you would love to have personalized craft and story support, accountability, and a small community of writers to help you keep moving forward, I would love to hear from you. We keep our group small with just six writers per group, so the space is limited. Enrollment will open November 16th, but you can join the interest list now and tell me a little about your writing project, and we can start exploring whether this community would be a good fit for you. So if you're interested, head to write at scare.co forward slash group-coaching to learn more and join the interest list. And I will post that link in the show notes as well. Okay, so now on to this week's courage file. And this one comes from a writer named Laura who spent the last six years working on her YA novel. And I'm gonna paraphrase some of what Laurel wrote to me. Uh, and it's absolutely beautiful. So, about a year into writing this novel, Laurel became so overwhelmed by all the changes she was making to the plot that she stepped away and she started to write fan fiction instead. But after a while, she felt guilty for abandoning her book. But eventually she realized that writing the fan fiction was exactly what she needed at the time to rediscover the joy of writing. So when she came back to the novel a year later, she'd realized she'd been trying to cram too much story into one book. So she reimagined it as a series and started drafting again. Unfortunately, the road didn't get any easier. She hit burnout, she struggled through revisions, and she struggled to learn when to accept criticism from critique partners and when to trust her own instincts. Then in 2025, she thought she was finally ready to self-publish, but she realized something important wasn't working in the final act of her story. So once again, she made the difficult decision to revise one more time and seek additional feedback. Looking back on her journey, Laurel writes, I see so many moments where I could have given up on this project, but I kept finding my way back, kept leveling up my skills, kept learning to seek support. Now in 2026, after six years of hard work, I am extremely proud of my book and I am preparing to self-publish soon. And here's what she shared about everything she's learned. Laurel writes, The whole journey has really taught me that the most important skill of a writer is tenacity. There are a million reasons to give up, but only you can find a reason to keep going. I've proven to myself that I can create a book that I am proud of, and that's a huge influence on my overall confidence. Laurel, what I love most about your courage file is it shows the reality of learning to write a novel. The process can be and usually is both arduous and joyful. Every writer's journey is going to be different, and your timeline is your own. And stopping is not the same as quitting. And then because we do this hard thing, we become someone with more self-trust, more self-belief. So I hope you recognize just how much you've accomplished, not only in the book that you've written, but in the writer that you have become. So thank you for sharing your courage moment with us. And I am rooting for you and your book. So, okay, writer, if you have a writing courage moment you'd like to share, head to the link in the show notes and submit it to the Courage Files. You'll also be entered to win our quarterly drawing for a free 10-page editorial assessment and 30-minute book coaching session with me. And together, we will put more hope into the writing world. Now let me introduce you to today's guest, Mika Merrill Rice. Mika Merrill Rice is a psychological thriller author of Sunlit Noor and podcast host dedicated to helping indie authors. Her work, including the upcoming release of What the Chrysalis Keeps, explores themes of guilt, power, resilience, and what happens when a woman is pushed too far. As the host of traditionally self-published, Mika advocates for Trad standard excellence in independent publishing, bridging the gap between creative autonomy and professional industry standards. Hi, Mika. Welcome to the Red It Scared podcast. I'm so happy to have you here and to talk about your next psychological thriller in your lineup.

Mica 7:01

So how are you? I'm great, Stacey. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Stacy Frazer 7:08

Yeah. We've actually been talking for the last, what, 10 minutes and finding out that we had a whole hell of a lot in common that we didn't really realize. We're both in the same writing group at one point in time or another, both writing these psychological suspense/slash thrillers. Yeah. So I'm really excited for our conversation today. But before we jump into talking about your book, why don't we have you just kind of set the stage? Even though I gave you a bio, just tell us how you got into writing and how long you've been doing it and when you decided to take it seriously.

Mica 7:40

Yeah. My writing began for me as a kid. I had gone through a lot of childhood trauma and then entering my teens, I had a really hard time at school. And I think most middle schoolers probably do, but at the time it didn't feel like it. So a combination of those two things got me in a really depressed state. And and somebody had a friend, a neighbor, whoever he was at the time, recommended starting a journal. So I did. I was diarying, putting in my diary what I how I was feeling, what things were going on, but it really didn't feel like enough. And then I started just writing poetry. I don't know why. I don't know how I even started it. I don't even know if it was the right way to do it. Of course, we'll go through our little English courses and get poetry training, but it just felt right. It felt natural. And I did that for many years and I never published it. I never will publish it. They're very dark. They're very suicidal, I'll be honest. And it was just a way for me to process my feelings so that I didn't do something stupid with my life. And then life happened in my 20s. Came around, got my tribe, did a lot of partying, had some kids, didn't write at all. A lot of that had to do with stress and just stuff going on. You know how it goes. And then in the back of my mind, like in my mid-30s, I'm like, it would be kind of cool to write a book one day. Like an actual book, an actual novel. I loved horror. I loved thriller. That's how I started reading. Not necessarily how I started reading. I'm sure I know that my friends wanted me to read Babysitter's Club and all that, but I couldn't get into it. I was really more like, please give me the R.L. Stein.

Stacy Frazer 9:21

Yeah, I was like, where's the Christopher Pike and the Stephen King when I was 14?

Speaker 9:25

Yeah, exactly. And I was lucky. My mom let me read whatever I wanted. My first real horror book was It by Stephen King and I was 13. My my first horror movie was The Birds of Alfred Hitchcock. Love it. It was Pet Cemetery. Oh my gosh, I love Pet Cemetery. And from there, it just seemed like the right fit. I read across genres. I've read romance. I've read literary fiction. I've done it all. And I just felt like that was my lane. The 20 before COVID hit, actually, it was in January. I made a resolution. I was going to start a book. And I wrote it. Life again happened. I start, I'd stop, I'd start, I'd stop. And eventually I got it done and published my first in 2024 while I was writing the Chrysalis. And that is where I'm at today.

Stacy Frazer 10:09

So it sounds like your younger years informed your taste.

Mica 10:15

Definitely.

Stacy Frazer 10:16

Yeah. And I think that's so beautiful about what story does for us, what it's capable of doing is taking pain and turning it into something, which is part of the kind of the tagline for your books is what happens when women take pain and turn it into power. Yep. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing either, right? No, not in this not in the chrysalis context, no. So let's talk about the book, What the Chrysalis Keeps. This is your second novel you released at the end of September 2026. So congratulations. By the time this airs, it will probably have been out for a couple of months. I'm reading it now, and it is dark and delicious and exactly up my alley. So why don't you tell us a little bit about the book and entice these readers?

Mica 11:08

All right. So what The Chrysalis Keeps in a Nutshell is about Imogen who goes by the name of Red, and she committed a murder about a decade before, and she is on the run. She's living on the edges of society. She's living on the streets. She's finds herself in a town which I called Claiborne, which is my ode to Stephen King. And she's working in an underground fight club as a fighter. And she does this as a way to make money. She learned how to fight just on her years on the run. And pretty much her special power, if you want to call it a power, is that she just doesn't lose a fight. And that gives her manager a lot of money and he likes it. But one night she fights only other women. Obviously, this is an illegal underground fight ring. And she loses a fight. And that fight costs her manager a lot of money. And she needs to get out of the situation because she's otherwise she's going to get killed. That's like a bookie situation. Bad bet gone wrong. She gets an invitation from a woman who's been following her. Hey, I see you're fighting Red. I want you to come to the sanctuary. It doesn't matter what you've done. We want to invite you into the sisterhood. And we promise we'll keep any of your secrets safe. Only when she gets to Swallowtail, the name of this Secret Sisterhood Society, it is anything but safe. And Sasha, the woman who runs the sisterhood, she has rules. And all of those rules are Imogen will learn, are not meant to keep her safe, but are meant to keep her alive. But the most important rule of all is the one Sasha never told her. And that is always have a plan for the moment they betray you. That is that's my elevator pitch. Longer than an elevator pitch, but that's my pitch.

Stacy Frazer 13:04

All the bells for me. So a a secret sister society. Yeah.

Mica 13:13

This sounds like a cult. Yes, they so it's cult-ish, also called a controlled group, because the controlled groups are more like high society. So think New England, old money. Yeah, exactly. Just lots of money back there. It's a big old vineyard. It's got a cellar where bad things don't have bad things happen. There's no wine happening down there. It has a cellar. But the other thing in this book is obviously Fiona. There's a it's a dual point of view. So Fiona is the voice from the past. And those her story will lead into why Sasha is the way she is, who she is, and how that all comes together with Red, everything else.

Stacy Frazer 14:00

And so there is what makes it a psychological suspense, right? So dual timeline, dual POV, and one timeline, Red's timeline, is marching you through this experience, the the front door window dressing of Swallowtail, while it sounds like Fiona's POV is showing you another side, and the reader is sitting there wondering. Maybe they're watching to see when Red will figure out exactly what's going on here.

Mica 14:36

Exactly. In the beginning of the book, anyway, she sees Sasha as just a weird control freak. But she's gonna learn that Sasha is much more dangerous than that. But it will take a little bit of time, obviously. Can't end the book at chapter five.

Stacy Frazer 14:53

Incredibly compelling setup and not easy to pull off that dual timeline, dual POV. So yeah, what was challenging about this book to write?

Mica 15:04

I think typically you read a lot of thrillers, psychological thrillers, where it's usually a bad guy and not necessarily a bad woman. And I'm not saying that all men are bad or that all women are bad, but the fact is that there can be notoriously heinous women, and there have been in time. I believe we all have a breaking point. And so this kind of led me to doing a little bit of research on psychopaths and sociopaths, the differences between the two, what anti-social disorder, I think is what it's called, what that is. Are these things nature versus nurture? And at the end of the day, it's a complex answer. And so, in reading that, that's how that kind of helped set the stage for the final draft. Because I had actually written this sort of in the way that it was, the way you're reading it now, but it just didn't feel right. So I scrapped most of it, I kept some of the names, I kept some of the backstory the same, and it ended up being a lot of backstory, which is why I no longer pants because I think it's helpful to write down some of the plot and go into the character development. But as I'm researching some of the psychological part of it to try to figure out who is Fiona, why is she like this? Why is Imogen like this? Why is Sasha the way she is? The the answer is always look in the past. It's always look at the past. What has happened to her? So it's not that you're coming into this book going, who did it? It's why did she do it? Are we even here? How did she get this way? And I asked that of anybody, even in real life, how do you the serial killer that was convicted in Florida of murdering, I think it was like six or seven men, sh you look at it and it's what she did was bad, but then you look at her childhood and you say, okay, I understand why she was, but in her case, they were saying she's a little bit psychopath, which is an actual condition that you're born with, and then it's activated by just years of childhood trauma. So yeah.

Stacy Frazer 17:18

Yeah, there's some strange chilling statistic out there that a great deal of the population actually has the potential.

Mica 17:26

Yes.

Stacy Frazer 17:27

They just don't get the they just don't get the flip, right? Yeah. In their environment, the flip of the switch in their environment, or enough pressure applied through their environment for that switch to turn fully turn on. Yeah. Is it hard to dig into these characters, into their psychology and into their history, and put someone like that on the page, someone capable of doing something horrible? I find that to be challenging for me.

Mica 18:02

Is it for you? It was in the beginning. I think because I was a little bit reserved, as I mentioned. I had a lot of issues from my own childhood, and it was like, how do I? I'm almost apologizing for sorry about the way I'm writing this, but I want to write this because this is how I feel. I am processing pain. Not that what I'm writing about is necessarily real for me, but there is an element of my own personal emotion that had to go into it in order to make it emotional for you, the reader. And I didn't do that so much in my first book. So my first book is more like, well, it's like a soft psychological thriller. The other thing was is that because I've been so conditioned to read about bad guys, and I had never, I haven't read too many about bad girls. I wanted to take that angle instead, knowing that there is obviously potential for women to be just as heinous as men. Yeah, I love that.

Stacy Frazer 19:00

And I can completely relate on taking a a grain or more of personal experience and applying it into the text and needing that to create the emotion that you want the book to carry. I like what you said. It's the first book was light, like psychological thriller, light. Soft, soft psychological thriller, soft, soft psychological thriller versus this one and the difference being the permission to write unapologetically, coming from a place of your using some of your own lived experience.

Mica 19:37

Yeah. And also tapping into other writers, like not necessarily tapping them. I would love to tap Karen Slaughter on the shoulder and be like, hey girl, can you please talk to me specifically about pretty girls? But I remember reading an article in which she shared, yes, she gets asked a lot, why is this so dark? When I see it in the forums all the time, it's a really dark book, and check the triggers. And yes, there are triggers, but the reality is, and she mentioned it, and I'm not quoting her appropriately, I'm sure, because I don't have it up, but she just said it's a reality, and that is the reality. It's not pretty. There are things that happen to people that are completely awful, but they do in fact happen. And I'm just writing, I'm writing what I know.

Stacy Frazer 20:16

I one of my favorite authors is Mindy McGuinness. She writes an upper YA adult crossover thrillers and psychological suspense. And her books are very gritty and raw. And I heard an interview with her one time. She's like, I don't understand romance. That's not real. This the ugliness of human nature, that's real. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah, I totally get it. I have to give myself palate cleansers sometimes, though. I'll read quite a bit of thriller or horror, whatever, and then I gotta switch over to romance and just like, I need a rom com. I need to throw a rom com. I need a little Emily Henry thrown in there to just like, yeah, right. Just to remind myself and ground myself. Okay, why don't you walk us through a little bit of your writing process? What is it like for you to start with a rough draft and take it all the way to a book that you're either ready to have beta reader, you're ready to ship out? Yeah.

Mica 21:15

So with the first one, I just went right in. I pants my whole way through. And because I know it was a huge lesson learned for me because I ended up rewriting it. But uh part of the problem was not just that I was pantsing my way along, and it's just not for me. There's plenty of people that pants and have no issue with it, but I work full-time and I didn't have a set schedule when I wrote. So it took me years to write it. And so what was happening in the beginning started when I started writing it in 2020 was not the same as when I got to 2024, right before I'm publishing it. So I ended up, I had it printed out on paper. I lost my original file on my computer, which was the best thing that ever happened because then it forced me to rewrite. It and I gave myself a date. I'm gonna get this published this year. I am very much a deadline girl. So just seeing that, okay, I have to, I want to publish it by November 1st, and I need to have it done by X date. And so I started going through the pages and marking everything up. I wrote it back into the computer and a lot of it changed. It wasn't so clunky. I fixed the timelines, I fixed names. Joe, it was maybe his name was Joe in chapter one. And by the time I got to chapter 20, his name is something completely different. So stuff like that. And then when I published it, I felt, okay, now I proved to myself that I can do it. Now what can I do to make it better? And that was when I really started leaning into just asking other authors questions and even editors, anybody in the industry that would talk to me. I already had an idea for the chrysalis that had already started it by that point. But just talking to people and then leaning into the craft books really helped me. And then that's when I got serious about writing down. I wrote notes down for Deep in the Woods, my first book. But when it came to the Chrysalis, I really sat down with a notebook and I just wrote out everything. I did Save the Cat. I also did The Story Genius. So a combination of those two things really helped me understand the characters a little better. And I think that's just an important part of a writer's journey is not just reading. You obviously want to read in your genre, but read outside the genre, read nonfiction, read about the craft. These were all things that ended up helping me. And also setting aside the time for the thing that I really want to do. So writing is something I've always wanted to do, you know, or at least when I said I'm gonna write this book, I'm this is what I want to do. But until I said, all right, I have to be honest with myself, the only time I'm gonna get this done if is if I get up and write at five o'clock in the morning. That was what changed it. And so that is my now my writing process. It's just getting up, protecting my time in the morning when everybody else is asleep and writing. Whether it's an hour and a half, whatever I can get in before I need to get ready, that's what I do. Love it.

Stacy Frazer 24:05

And for anybody listening who doesn't know, she was referencing some craft books, Save the Cats by Jessica Brody and Story Genius by Lisa Cront. And I couldn't agree more. It is part of the writer's journey. Reading is essential, but what those types of craft books do is allow you to learn a language to analyze what you're reading and then be able to apply it to your own work. Highly recommend. And those are two of my favorite craft books as well.

Mica 24:33

Yeah. Game changers for sure. Sidebar here. Are you on the West Coast? You are, right? No, I'm on the East Coast. I'm a New Yorker. You're a New Yorker living in Florida, but I'm a New Yorker. God damn it.

Stacy Frazer 24:46

I know. So your 5 a.m. is my 2 a.m.

Mica 24:50

2 a.m. I mean unless you're getting home from the club or something, Stacey. Maybe that's your thing. You can join me for writing such. I live in BFE. There is no club.

Stacy Frazer 25:00

And even if there was, I wouldn't. That's not where you would find me. Not in my 40s. Maybe in my 20s. In my 20s, absolutely. It's funny that you said you're using your lived experience as some of the things that's that are just real. The my the book that I am working on now, it's out with betas. I had somebody come back to me and say, it's realistic for everybody to be an alcoholic. I'm like, in my world, it was. Yeah. Well, yes. Yes. Yes. Anyway. Okay, so where were we? That was your process. So the heart of the podcast is really about discussing why writing is difficult. Not, yes, it's the craft, it's all the things, it's the ability to sit down and make a commitment and follow through and want it for long enough, right? And for to act on that want. But it's also about the internal struggles that we have that nobody else sees those internal battles with our self-doubt. So would you be willing to share a time when this was hard for you internally, when you struggled and what that was like and what helped you get through it?

Mica 26:11

Yeah. When I started my first book, I mentioned life had to happen. A lot of life was around COVID. It was just a different time. There were a lot of things going on. At the time, my oldest son was a teenager, and just navigating teenagers, trying to do high school online, watching them in isolation was really hard for me. And trying to be there for him was hard. And then also trying to be there for my little one, who at the time was three. And so just trying to stay sane during COVID, I'll just say that in general, it wasn't just my sons, it was me. It was my husband. It was like, how in the hell are we going to get through this? And I don't have the fucking mental capacity to write right now. I can't think. I can't think at all. So that was really hard for me. But then after it was a solid probably nine months where I didn't write at all on Deep in the Woods, it was just sitting there collecting dust. I came back around to it and reminded myself, this is why I write, right? This is why I write. I write to process the feelings. And so I'm just going to keep chipping away at it. And but again, at the time, I didn't have, oh, I'll just maybe during my lunch hour, or maybe I'll do it after I get off work, or maybe I'll do it when I finally sit down at night and I'll just write a little bit at a time. That wasn't happening. Then I read Atomic Habits. And one of the things that he says to sit in there is set a timer and just work your way up in time. So I started doing that, but I made it a little bit more intentional. And that's what got me from I can't do this to I can do this, and it just might not be as fast as I want to. And I think just accepting that, just dealing with real stressors. There's always going to be stress in life, but dealing with real stressors in life plus being more intentional were probably the hardest things for me to overcome during this writing process, at least with novels.

Stacy Frazer 28:05

Novels. I also appreciated atomic habits for that. Is okay, here's the goal. Now throw away the goal. And break down the process. And I think it's I think it's that book where the the quote is we what is it? We don't fail. I can't think of it, but it's it's something very important.

Mica 28:28

Yeah, very important. He said a lot of important things.

Stacy Frazer 28:31

Well, we don't rise to the level of our goals. We fall and fail at the to the we fall to the level of our systems, right? I think it's something along those lines. And when I read that, I was like, oh, yes. Okay. So what kind of systems do I have in place to help me achieve the thing that I want to achieve? And that's what you're talking about is becoming more regimented, becoming more intentional. And I love that. So what does self-doubt look like for you now as an author who's got three books under her belt?

Mica 29:05

I don't think self-doubt will ever go away. I really don't. I don't know. If any, if there is any author out there that is like, I am the best writer, I am so much better than I was. Every book is like ram stoker material or whatever it is it may be, they'd be probably telling you a lie. I don't think the self-doubt ever really goes away, and it definitely hasn't, at least not for me, anyway. I try to remind myself that not everybody's gonna love the book, but you can look at some great books in history. My one of my personal favorites is why the cage bird sings. And I'm sure if I looked on Goodreads or Amazon or whatever, it's not gonna have a perfect 5.0. It's not gonna be that five star that everybody wants because it doesn't exist. There's just, I feel like writing is art and art is subjective. It's just like looking at a beautiful painting on the wall. What I see is not what you're gonna see, and what you read is not what I'm gonna read, and we all process it a little bit different. Reminding myself of that doesn't necessarily mean that I go into my book and say, okay, I just have to remember this, and I'm never gonna be, I'm never gonna have that self-doubt during this process. But reminding myself of that every single day is what helps me get over that and just get to the finish line. I love that. Yep.

Stacy Frazer 30:16

Taste is individual, there's more than one individual with that taste. So there will be reasons. Exactly. I love that. So, what have you learned about yourself and your writing process from your first book to now?

Mica 30:29

You mentioned it earlier. Yeah. Definitely structure. That was the biggest thing. I am a program manager by trade during the day. That's what I have been doing. But I can assure you, my real life, I am the biggest hot fucking mess. I am like, we are getting to school in the morning with a spirit, get out of the car. We're you got 30 seconds to get to class before you are tardy. So that's what my outside life works looks like a little bit. And I'm sure those of you that know, you know. But I guess basically I wasn't applying what I do, what I have learned all of these years in my regular job to my writing job because I wanted to keep them separate, to be honest. Like, absolutely. I want to turn work off and do something creative. But the reality is that I really did need that structure. I give kudos to anybody that can sit in a car line and get their writing done, or they're sitting at night watching TV and doing some stuff. I just can't do it. Had to be a lot more like structured and scheduled.

Stacy Frazer 31:31

Yeah, I so identify with that. When I first came into writing, I was like, wow, this is all expansive. And I'm I just because I had such a rigid and linear work life and life life. And I just wanted to embrace creativity and the idea. I heard about this plotting thing and structure, and I was like, what's that? And story structure. And I was like, oh no, no, thank you. I just got here and I really don't need anybody telling me what to do. Thank you very much. And the result was not great. It wasn't a good story, but it was what I needed at the time. It was what I needed at the time to just let go, right? But now I appreciate okay. All all art forms have some sort of structure. Structure is in everything, and the beautiful creations we have, you know, they have some sort of scaffolding. Like trees have scaffolding, flowers have scaffolding, paintings have a canvas, it's and books have this invisible spine. Yeah. And and I'm not talking about the experimental stuff, I'm talking about commercial fiction. It has this invisible spine, and you will come to learn this, even if you don't know it right now, you will come to realize this. And understanding it and understanding how to work with it makes the writing process more enjoyable, honestly. Sometimes it gives me more of a headache, but mostly it was because I didn't know what I didn't know back then. But now that I know it I think it just helps. I don't know. It eases the way in some way, shape, or form. It definitely does. I agree. What do you think the best piece of writing advice you've ever received has been?

Mica 33:24

Okay, so I spoke to Candy Steiner. She is a big best-selling romance author. And I just said, Hey Candy, will you talk to me? And I want to ask you some questions. I just, she was on threads. She is one of those super sweet, really cool people that will just tell you what versus what's actually happening in the background. And she's she had to start somewhere. And she sat with me and she told me a whole bunch of things. I asked her a bunch of questions. This is on my podcast. And one of the things that she told me was, like, you want to treat your readers like family or family or friends. You're basically whoever you interact with, you want to have some kind of you want to be, we want to come to them with personality. And I'm not quoting her correctly, but you'll see it in the way that she presents herself on her own social media. And so that was one of the biggest things that I took from her. And it was something that I guess I already knew. I build relationships at work because if you don't, first of all, the work would suck if I didn't actually have work relationships, but it's fun. We're all human and we all want to make some kind of connection. And so I really kind of leaned into that. Not that I'm like the best at posting on social media, but I am really good at interacting with people and I genuinely like to. So if there's a TikTok account out there or an Instagram account out there and they post something that maybe resonated with me, or maybe they had a review on a book that I want to read, I'll comment on it. And maybe that leads to some back and forth banter and it has. And maybe that leads to a DM and it has. I've also done that with other authors that I admire, like Steph Nelson, who is a psychological thriller writer. I DM'd her one day, and or and Faith Gardner, I DM'd her one day, and I don't care. I'm like, we're all human, even though they're a lot bigger than I am. We're all human on the inside. So just establishing those connections and just being human, I think was the best piece of advice that I ever received. And it's the same one that I tell other people. Just be human. We might be authors, but we're also somebody's kid. We're somebody's niece or nephew, we're just somebody looking to make a connection with somebody on an honest level. And I think that's especially important now, as much as it is, it has ever been.

Stacy Frazer 35:45

Yeah, I love that. Make connections on an honest level. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so just a couple more wrap-up questions. If you had one wish for your fellow authors out there or fellow writers, those working on their debut, what would it be?

Mica 36:02

Just finish it. I know that seems very easy coming out, and I know it's not on the receiving end, but you just have to finish it. Try different things. For me, it was setting a time of day when I took this seriously and I said, okay, I want, I would love for this to be my full-time job. What would I need to do to make it my full-time job? I need to show up for it. I need to show up for myself. So that's one, establishing a routine of some kind where you can get there. But two, I have seen a few authors do this where they start something and the story sounds brilliant and then they don't finish it and then they put it aside and they're working on something else. I have a tendency to like my brain is always in different directions, and I have to bring myself back to one. So just remember, finish one thing and then work on the next. I just want you to finish. That's my biggest wish for any of my fellow writers.

Stacy Frazer 36:53

Yeah, absolutely. And for anybody out there who's drafting and struggling, just remember the first draft is it all it needs to do is exist. I was talking with a friend the other day complaining about the first draft that I'm working on right now on a different book. And I asked how theirs was going. And they said, I'm not really sure what it's about yet. They said these two things at the same time. I'm almost at the midpoint and still just kind of figuring out what this book is about, but it's just scaffolding right now. So that's okay. My first draft is just scaffolding. I went, that's a really good reminder for me that first drafts are just scaffolding. And it never fails. It doesn't matter. This is the fifth book that I'm working on. And I forget and I take that damn first draft too seriously. And I need to be reminded to dial it back. I was in group with my group coaching writers the other day, and I was doing a show versus tell uh little webinar for him. And I brought up my very the first pages of my rough draft for this psychological suspense, and then the one that I shipped off to beta readers and talking about how many rounds of revision were in between the the rough draft and the revision. Thank God it's still the same scene, right? That scene still exists. But it's just, I forget that books are made in layers through iteration and just let it go. For 99% of us, I think they're made in layers and iteration. They are not made by somebody just sitting down and going from page one to the end, revising as they go. Some people can do that, but I think they're the rarity. Yes. So I agree. So just finish it first. Start by finishing the first draft.

Mica 38:42

Yes, exactly. First drafts are always gonna be a mess, but it's a beautiful mess because it's something that you completed. I think that in itself is worth like celebrating. You can fix it. You can't fix something that's not done.

Stacy Frazer 38:55

Yeah, and I often have writers say, but then I'm gonna have to rewrite it. Yeah.

Mica 39:01

Yeah. You do not all but I no, but then I think that's the fun part is wow, yeah. And then you get to become Miranda Priestley and you get to edit it. You get to be cruel with the red pen and everything. I love it. I love it. Also, I love that movie, by the way.

Stacy Frazer 39:18

Meryl Streep is just like the best. Yeah, she's just the best. Okay. So yes, you'll have to be rewrite it. That's the point. That's what makes it good. Okay. So would you please share what you're currently working on? Definitely where readers can find what the Chrysalis keeps, and then where listeners can find you.

Mica 39:42

So I am currently working on a trilogy. It's my first, which is why I am relying on the story genius so heavily, because otherwise I would definitely forget what the hell I wrote. But this one is inspired by my two real life grandmothers. My grandmother was a spy in real life, and her mother committed suicide when she was just 38 years old. But I didn't want that to be her story. And one thing about my grandmother was she wasn't as celebrated as I think that most women need to be, especially that time, but still now, even. I said, I hold these two women in my heart. I'm gonna give them a place on the page. And I always say this: I turn pain into power. And I'm gonna turn the pain that I know or that I think that they went through, and I'm gonna give them some powerful presence on the page in a way to honor them. So that's what I'm working on now for my trilogy. And I'm hoping to release the first one in September of next year. We'll see if that works. And then hopefully wrap on releasing the next two. And then, as far as my first two books, Deep in the Woods and What the Chrysalis Keeps are available, of course, on my website, which will be linked in the show notes. And then also Amazon, libraries, anywhere you think you can get it, indie bookstores, they're all there. You just have to ask for it.

Stacy Frazer 40:58

Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today. And I cannot wait to finish what the Chrysalis Keeps. And I will definitely put all your links in the show notes so that others can find them.

Mica 41:11

Awesome. Thank you so much, Stacy, for having me. I really appreciate it. It was fun.

Stacy Frazer 41:17

Thank you for listening to the Write It Scared podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. And please leave a review. Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories. Let's lift each other up. Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable. I'll see you soon.