Opening And Community Theme

Matilda Swift 0:00

I don't care. I'm here and trying. That is the thing that I want to be doing. It's not about the success. It's about the being here and trying. There are people who I know who they went back to their hometowns and they're just working for their parents' company. And I don't want that T me. So it does feel like the trying is the more important part. Obviously, I would love to be really rich, but the persisting in trying is I would rather be doing that than doing something else. And that having somebody else do it with you feels like it enables you to keep going through long periods of maybe not getting anywhere.

Stacy Frazer 0:33

Welcome to the Red It Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formerly repressed creative soul, turned fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach. At Write It Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories. The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability, and the often subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it. This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to help you do that successfully. Join me bi-weekly for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers. Writing a novel is an inside job we do not do alone. Welcome to Red It Scared. I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hey writer, welcome back to the Write It Scared Podcast. I'm your host, Stacey, and today is a guest episode. And I'm so excited to welcome two fellow authors and podcasters to the show, Samantha Cummings, who writes YA Fantasy, and Matilda Swift, who writes Cozy Mysteries and Cozy Fantasy. And we are going to talk about how finding the right writing community can change the trajectory of your career, the value of having people in your corner who share your goals, and how to find a community that fits your needs, even if that means you just start with one person and you keep them.

Courage File A Publishing Pivot

Stacy Frazer 2:00

I'll introduce Sam and Matilda in just a second, but first it is time for this week's Courage file. And this one comes from a writer named Janie who shared a pretty exciting publishing win. Janie writes, after more than 100 agent rejections, I pivoted to research small presses that accepted unagented submissions, and I found a home for my manuscript. My debut novel will be published in spring of 2027 with a small press. Oh my gosh. Janie, congratulations. And thank you so much for sharing your win with us. And what I love about it is that it's a reminder that it's okay to pivot. It's more than okay. And that a bunch of no's doesn't mean that a yes isn't coming. So when the doors feel like they just keep closing, it's so important to keep the faith and believe in our work and go find a window. And I think that this particular moment of writing courage is so relevant to our conversation today, which at its heart is really about just continuing to find a way forward, even when it's difficult. So, writer, if you have a writing win or a moment when you did a scary thing, I want to hear about it, no matter how big or how small. Submit your story to the Courage Files using the link in the show notes, and you'll be entered to win our quarterly drawing for a free 10-page editorial assessment and 30-minute book coaching session with me. And I'm really excited because tomorrow I get to talk to the winner of our summer courage files drawing. And we're going to review the editorial notes on their submission and then talk through next steps. And I get to coach them on how to move forward with their draft. And I'm so excited. So I hope that you enter the Courage Files too. Okay,

Guest Journeys And Genre Choices

Stacy Frazer 3:47

now let me introduce you to Sam and Matilda. Samantha B. Cummings and Matilda Swift are two indie authors with over two dozen books between them. And they're still working towards the quit the day job dream. They're documenting all the steps they're taking to reach success and pulling back the curtain on indie publishing over at the Pen2 Paycheck Authors Podcast. Welcome, Sam and Matilda, to the Right It Scared Podcast. How are you? I have to tell you, you are two very gracious people to put up with me because I recorded with Sam in August, and then I don't know what happened. Zoom ate it. I don't know. So we're doing it again, but this time we get Matilda with us. She couldn't be with us last time because you were on a writing routine. So I'm very excited to talk to both of you. I gave you both bios in the opening, but why don't we kick off by just having you share with listeners a bit more about your writing journey? What do you write? How did you get your start? When did you get your start? Sam, why don't you go first and then we'll hop over to Matilda.

Samantha Cummings 4:57

Okay, I always find it hard to remember because the past is nothing to me. Forever moving forward. So like past Sam, who was she? But I started self-publishing in I think 2016. So I've been doing this for a while, but just not well. But I yeah, I've been writing for a long time and publishing for a long time, trying different genres and not doing anything particularly what what anyone would say you should do. But then a couple of years ago I decided to do a bit better. So I changed my pen name and now writing under my basically real name, Samantha B. Cummings. And I write young adult, soon to be kind of new adult fantasy. Witches, monsters, all dark magic, all the good stuff. Dark academia. Oh dark academia. Yes, my pride and joy. I absolutely love dark academia. Just love. In my blood. Love. Awesome.

Stacy Frazer 5:57

Thank you. Thank you. How about you, Matilda?

Matilda Swift 6:00

I feel like I was gonna say the same thing of like I've been publishing for a few years, but not well. I don't know if it's not well, but I think like I am definitely someone who I always want to be better and want to be, I think there's always scope for like improving. I think my books are getting better on the writing side and the publishing side, which is really interesting to see. But I have been writing forever. Like I think all my first memories were of reading and writing. And I've been writing cozy mysteries and now I'm writing cozy fantasies. So I have just coziness. I'm wearing a very cozy jumper today. I only I don't like anything dark. I grow I like reading very broadly, but in terms of writing, I really like finding safe spaces and exploring how people change within themselves in those spaces rather than having to save the world. Because I don't want to do that. That's too much for me.

Stacy Frazer 6:51

So it sounds like Sam and I both need your books because we write dark dark record. Yeah. I love that. I love that. And you host the pen to paycheck for authors podcast. So tell us about that. What is it about and what made you start it?

Matilda Swift 7:06

So we met very briefly when we were very little, and then we have a friend in common. So we kept hearing about each other. And then I lived abroad, and when I came back, I wanted to make a writing community because I had nothing here, but I had a lot when I lived overseas. And kind of the the only person that I knew locally-ish, who was a writer, was Sam. And so we said we started a critique group, and then that wasn't quite what we wanted, and then we decided to meet up once a month focus on the publishing side of it. And then when we were there, we both secretly whispered, I have a blacktower podcast. And it turned out we had the exact same podcasting mic, which I think is basically that's fate. Amazing. So what's the focus of your podcast?

Samantha Cummings 7:44

Yeah, we are documenting all of the highs and lows of trying to make writing our actual paid careers. So yeah, we saw a gap in the market where all the podcasts that we were listening to, because we're both super into podcasts anyway, and all the podcasts that we were listening to were people talking about like when they'd already made it, and nothing was really jumping out at us of people talking about what it's like when you're in it, where you're trying to level up every aspect and you know the brutal honesty of that process. Yeah, so we just wanted to document it for ourselves and thought it'd be fun to share. And it was literally within our first meeting of deciding we were gonna, because we started like a mastermind group, and to help each other progress and push each other within that first meeting of deciding to do a podcast. We were recording a week later. We just talk about everything that we're doing, nothing is off limits. We share like mental health crisis, yeah. We talk about money, we talk about like all the fun that we're having, like all the things that we love doing about it, and we grumble about all the stuff that we hate doing. Yeah, it's just everything. A real open door, come and look at the mess of our lives kind of thing.

Stacy Frazer 9:02

I think it's amazing because you're right, we rarely get a look behind the curtain as the thing is taking shape. Sometimes we get a look behind the curtain after it's all done, right? So I think that's incredible. And it also kind of blends perfectly into what we're talking about today. Figuring out how to find and be a part of a community can change the trajectory of a career. Because when you see the mess for what the mess truly is, suddenly you're like, oh, okay, nope, I yep, I belong here. If I'm not so different, I'm not I'm not behind, I'm not really behind. I'm right where I need to be, and I'm just learning all the same levers that everybody else is. And some people are a little farther ahead, and some people are so we're all in it, and none of it's easy to figure out. So I love that and thank you for putting that out in the world.

Lonely Beginnings And Finding Support

Stacy Frazer 10:02

Okay. So if you think back to maybe when you were first starting out, first starting to self-publish, what was it like for you back then? Were you doing it on your own? Did you know people? Talk a little bit about that.

Samantha Cummings 10:22

I started very secretively. I knew that it's like it was always a pipe dream to write a book. And it was only when I did nano rhymo, or started doing nano rhymo, which is the National Lovel Writing Month, which is generally held in November. It's die to death, but I still participate because I love writing in November. And it was only when I started doing that for fun that I realized I could write. But I didn't know any writers. I was just doing it because it was like I said, it was a realized dream. Like, oh my god, I can write a book in a month. And I found it scarily easy to do. Like a real hidden talent. And I don't mean like I'm a great writer, I'm an okay writer, but just in terms of sitting down and writing a story, like it was a bit of a dream come true to realise that I was good at something that required like dedication because I'm such a flaky person. So I started, didn't know anyone, started self-publishing because it seemed like a fun thing to try and do, but I just had no clue what I was doing. I was publishing under a pen name, I wasn't really telling anybody, and it was just like a secret life that I was able to live. And it started to become a lonely life the further I got into it. So that's that was where I was at before we started doing this.

Stacy Frazer 11:43

It sounds quite isolating. In in some respects, that's the I'm very good at self-isolating. You get your anonymity, but with that, you also sacrifice a shared learning journey as well. So I can see that. How about you, Matilda?

Matilda Swift 11:59

Since I've had the exact opposite situation, but it felt in many ways similar in terms of the outcome and how I felt about the outcome. So I have always written and never really felt like it was a secretive thing. I think maybe because I have always studied science subjects. So I've always been coming from this position where no one I know writes, and then I just go find a writing community. So I would be like going to poetry readings in the big city near us when I was 14, and I was the only science student in the creative writing group in sixth form, and then I did a creative writing masters, and I set up a magazine when I was there for literature, and I've always found communities, but I just never felt like I was progressing in terms of my writing. I kept writing books that I just never knew what to do with, and occasionally sent them out to agents, and then I had an agent who was like we were emailing, and I was like, I just don't know what to do with this, and I just really felt like I didn't have anyone to ask or structure, and so I just I found myself 10-15 years later doing the same thing over and over again. I was like, I don't, this doesn't feel like I'm doing the right things, and then like I said, had a great writing committee in Hong Kong, and someone there had got really successful from the 2016 kind of Kindle Boom, and and she was like, I'll just tell you everything you need to do. So I was like, Oh, I could publish a book, and I had I'd written, we're in a critique group together, I'd written the beginning of a crazy mystery there, and she was like, Oh, this is a crazy mystery, which was not really a genre in the UK. So I actually had to then go way research it and write a book and publish it. Like, oh now I'm doing a thing, I'm actually doing it, and that felt so different. And then I could join indie publishing communities, and there are people who were again making progress. I really felt for a long time I felt like I was doing the right thing and going nowhere. And now, in a slightly different way, I feel like I'm doing the right thing and going nowhere, but there's always more things to do and to try, and there's more people to ask, and making the podcast we've made this community people who are also doing the same thing, they're also all trying to write and publish books, and there's always new things to be at least giving a go, even if it's not all going in a positive trajectory. I feel more satisfied with being in a group of people who are working together to improve.

Stacy Frazer 14:11

Absolutely. Wow, so definitely very different starts from for both of you. Matilda, it sounds like you've always been comfortable seeking out community, whereas Sam not so much.

Samantha Cummings 14:24

No, I am not what I like to call myself missed over trees for the most part. I am not I'm not a real human being. I just pretend to be every now and again.

Stacy Frazer 14:34

Yeah. I think that's a pretty common experience, honestly, to when we first get started. Depending on the background we come from, if I think one of the benefits of going through traditional education and having a literary background that way is that you're steeped in community and people who think in at least in similar sim a similar way. But if you're not, I did not study literature. I have a background in economics and in medicine. So I didn't know anybody who wrote, but I definitely had assumptions about writers. I had assumptions about authors and that they were quite special, rare. Someone who, I don't know, not me. They had some sort of magic, and I did not. So did either of you ever feel that way?

Matilda Swift 15:26

I still do. You still even though I know a lot of people think we are writers.

Samantha Cummings 15:30

Yeah. I yeah, I would say the same. I think that there are certain things that I do really well, and I am my biggest fan, my own biggest fan for a lot of things. But I do still feel like I'm like such a small fish in a very big pond. I just feel what would it be like to live the life of someone who's doing this professionally? And I still I feel like I'm still not there. And even it doesn't matter how much money I'm making or not making, I do think it's a mindset thing. I think that I'm just not there mindset-wise. I still feel like somebody who's learning the ropes, even though I've been doing it for forever, it feels like there is always that idea of remaining teachable is not a bad thing.

Stacy Frazer 16:13

Assuming you're a lifelong student is not a bad thing.

Samantha Cummings 16:17

Yeah, that's true. It's like a real crazy mindset to have. Because on one hand, I do love the idea of I'm just learning all the time and I love learning. And then the other part of my brain is saying, You're dumb. You're so dumb, you'll never do this. The constant fight.

Stacy Frazer 16:35

I totally get that. Absolutely. So it sounds like Matilda, you found a model that you were like, oh, so you found somebody who gave you a guideline, yeah.

Matilda Swift 16:50

And very clear. I do not know even vaguely how you would have done it without that. That seems impossible. And I felt the same way about writing Crazy Mysteries. For a long time, I'd written all different genres and different sorts of books, and I kept coming to him like, I don't know how to make this better. I don't know what shape it's meant to be, so how do I know how to improve it? And with Crazy Mysteries, they've got a really good, clear, you know, plot that you would go through. And again, so that's a very useful to practice and see how to improve within that. I definitely wish I had tried to write a specific, clear, articulated genre for much earlier in my career. Because trying to just write and see what comes out was not helpful for me. I didn't improve as quickly as I could have done in terms of my writing. And so now I'm writing Crazy Fantasy, which has a much less clear arc. It's like a character arc, but not a huge amount of plot stakes. I would never have been able to write that without having written Crazy Mysteries, because now I can see how you're affecting the tension and the pacing without it having to be something dramatic and big happening.

Stacy Frazer 17:53

Lessons learned, right? And I think that just comes as part of in my experience, like when you first start out. Sometimes you don't know what it is that you want to you want to write, and you find your way there. Sometimes it's like the the idea of craft and genres and particular structures and reader expectations and hitting those things, and that all comes as part of learning the craft. So, but I appreciate if there's a way. Instead of it all you figuring it out in happenstance, if there is a particular path to follow, I like steps, right? I'm a linear thinker. I think that's what you're saying is that now because you met this person, you figured out a system and not something that you and Sam are practicing together and improving upon in community with other people. Am I off the rails or is that right? That's right. Yeah. Cool.

Barriers And Better Community Fit

Stacy Frazer 18:49

Okay. So let's say somebody wants what you've got, right? They want what you have, they want this plan. What do you think holds them back from going there, from trying to find it? What holds people back from community?

Samantha Cummings 19:02

My reason for not reaching out for community sooner was I find big groups intimidating. So whilst there are like the big Facebook groups that you can join and indie author groups, it it's not always a welcoming place for people who don't do well in those spaces. And I definitely I've joined all those groups, but I never felt compelled to join in a conversation because I'm just not that sort of person who likes to talk in a room full of people. I think for me that was probably what held me back was like I don't really want to be the fool in a group or in a big group of people, even though I don't think it's foolish to be in those groups. Just for me personally, I'm a don't I don't like big groups. And also just fear of progressing mindset. This is big mindset, like a fear of the unknown. So I I will would lump a fear of failure in with a fear of progressing, where both of those things to me are scary because I don't know what could come from either of them. So if you wanted to put me in thyropee, it would be for that.

Stacy Frazer 20:05

Your experience is similar to mine. I don't like big groups, they make me sweat. I definitely don't feel compelled to add a conversation or to start conversation in big groups. That's very trying for me. How about you, Miss Sulza? What do you think was the barrier for you of finding a community that gave you what you were looking for?

Matilda Swift 20:23

I think just for a long time I maybe didn't know what I was looking for. And yeah, I don't know why I don't I didn't find, I would say honestly, where we Sam and I both have the same area, where we live has got a lot of like really strong writing community. There are lots of writing people she can join, but like a lot of people in them are very annoying. That is really a true thing about having to try and join writing communities, is you will join and there will be like some overbearing character who sets the tone very strictly and it's not fun to be in. And then you just think, I don't need this, I'm out. So I have joined groups and less groups, and I think particularly in like writing critique groups where it's formed of strangers, those are they can be very useful, but they're also very trying. So yeah, for a long time I think I because I'd always done critique groups from from school and university, that's the sort of thing I thought I was looking for. But it wasn't really till I I formed my groups more around the publishing side of things and wasn't worried so much about people exchanging writing and then from those groups then stretched out into critique or do you know people that I think I found more productive?

Samantha Cummings 21:32

Yeah.

Matilda Swift 21:32

So I think maybe trying to join different types of groups, and obviously for a lot of life, I was living overseas where you can't access necessarily lots of types of groups. So I had a really good critique group there, but there were no options to go to like conferences, and I meant to lots of conferences now being based in the UK, which had been fantastic for meeting community.

Stacy Frazer 21:48

That's interesting. So you changed the groups that you joined. It was more focused on the outcome, like on the publishing outcome, right? It was self publishing. This particular vein. And then that led you to finding writers to help with the writing piece of it, the critique and the craft. And that's really cool. Yeah.

Matilda Swift 22:11

I hadn't really thought about that before, but I think, yeah, when you join a critique group, you're straight away having to be very connected to someone. You have to show them your work and then hear their maybe not well-phrased feedback about it. You're like, I actually, you're my personal enemy forever now. That's it. We're not if we start from a group of writers talking about the publishing process, you're not sharing anything personal. And you can then slowly grow closer to people that you choose to spend more time with. And then you can swap work if you want to. And there's nothing potentially heartbreakingly honestly going to say to your face, where which you might get in a cheat group.

Stacy Frazer 22:46

So what would you say to a writer who is looking for community? Where would you tell them to look? What would you where would you say where to start? Based on your experience of what you've gone through, maybe what you would have changed in the beginning versus now.

Group Coaching Opportunity

Stacy Frazer 23:05

Hey writer, quick pause here because I want to put an opportunity on your radar for January of 2027. Yes, I know. This is October. And no, we're not talking about Christmas, thank goodness. And no, I usually don't think this far ahead, but for this I am, and I want you to as well. If you want 2027 to be the year that you make solid progress on your story, and you know you'd benefit from having a professional book coach in your corner to help you work through plot and character problems, strengthen craft, help with mindset, and give you the accountability you need to stay on track with your goals, then I want you to be in the know about my seasonal group coaching community. From January through May, I'll work with two small groups of six writers each to untangle those story problems and figure out what to do when you inevitably get stuck because novels, you know, it happens. Enrollment will open in mid-November, but the interest list is open now. You can learn more and get on the list by going to the website https://www.writeitscared.co/group-coaching or check the link in the show notes. So take a look and see if this might be a good fit for you come the first of the year. All right, let's hop back into our episode.

Finding Or Building Your Own Community

Samantha Cummings 24:16

I think it is maybe just finding one person because it's so much easier to tackle anything with somebody by your side. And yeah, I guess figure out what you're looking for. There's you could join a community that is only where people might only talk about writing. And maybe that's what you're looking for. But for me, that's not what I was looking for. Matilda said that once you start finding people who want to talk about the business side, that's when things clicked for me as well. It's like having those conversations when you know that you're working towards the same goal, not just working in the same field. That really helped. So I think just knowing what you're looking for, and then just finding one person and then you can kind of go from there. I think that is the key. Because when we first connected, it was because I put on Twitter, I think it was Twitter, I'd put a post on Twitter saying, I need to be doing this, I need to be writing professionally and making money by the time I'm 40. And even though that hasn't happened, it has in a way, yeah. It has we but we both had that desire. It was like I had voiced the thing that we were both thinking, which was I want to take this more seriously, and I need somebody to take this seriously with. So I think, yeah, just finding that one person who take that path with you and then find more people to walk with to be really cheesy.

Stacy Frazer 25:33

Yeah. I think that was amazing. Okay. Mathilda, what about you? How would you what would you say about someone going about finding a fit for them community-wise? Sam said, find a person that's on the same wavelength as you and go forward. And maybe that's all you need is just one person. Do you have any thoughts? I would say try different types of things as well.

Matilda Swift 25:55

That definitely was the key for me. So trying conferences, retreats, critique groups, like anything you can find, go to talks, go to webinars. So if you're someone who's comfortable doing that, don't get discouraged if you go to some that are not great or that you don't meet someone usefuler. I have definitely found one person here, one person there. And it might be that I've done a year-long writing course thing. And from that, I might have only met one person that I'm still in touch with, but a few people that have tangential connections to on Facebook. And if they had a course they were recommending, I'd be like, Oh, I might also try that, and then you never know where it's going to lead you. So definitely trying lots of different things. And I would also say, This is not necessarily available to everyone, but I would say the best thing is make your own community. So make a podcast, we're all trying to make a podcast. Start a podcast. And then everyone already knows your vibe. Everyone, you don't have to even be that sociable in real life anymore because we'd be like, listen to my podcast. I'm not updating you. Catch up to the episodes. Yeah, and then you're finding people who are looking for the same thing. And I think it can be really hard if you're at a very particular stage of your career where there isn't a gathering place. This is also part of why we wanted to have this podcast that we set up. Because there aren't people talking about I'm not succeeding, I'm not a terrible value. I'm trying something, I'm not in the success phase. And that's not really anything our society talks about a lot. And we wanted to find more people who would be able to talk about that rather than only listen to like bigger, more successful voice who found one thing that worked for them. I don't want to try everyone's one thing. I want to be in a community where maybe 10 of us are trying one thing and then we get to see what works.

Stacy Frazer 27:31

Yeah. Yeah. Have have either of you ever read it's an older book, but it's by Seth Godin called The Dip.

Matilda Swift 27:37

Yeah. Yeah.

Samantha Cummings 27:38

I feel like I'm living in the dip.

Matilda Swift 27:39

I inhabit the dip.

Stacy Frazer 27:41

Yeah. Very powerful message that's appropriate no matter what stage of writing you're in. Whether you're brand new here or you're drafting something, or you're in revision, or you're on the other side where you got the writing thing and now you're publishing. Publishing, it's it's applicable. Highly recommend it. As a matter of fact, I'll put a link in the show notes. But basically, what it says is every challenging endeavor you're gonna face this time where the the return on your investment, whatever that investment, it doesn't look very good at all. It's not pretty. And you think to yourself, maybe I should go do something else. That's when you need to stay for the most part. So that's when you need to stay, and then you ride through the difficulty and the break comes. Yeah, so I think that's a great book. Okay, both of you have suggested different avenues of how and where to look. Matilda is stay open, try new things. Sam, it was you getting very honest. It was one post about being really honest. I want to do this thing, but I'm not doing very well trying to do it on my own. Is anybody out there? Yeah, both very cool, different approaches wound up together. Now you have a podcast that allows other writers to kind of look behind the curtain of what it's like to be in the dip of self-publishing, right? And hopefully climbing out of it quite soon. That's my wish for both of you.

Samantha Cummings 29:11

We're gonna get out of this dip. See our podcast as a five-year plan. It's like a five-act structure. So we're currently in in the third act. Okay. So we are seeing a lot of tumblers at our third year podcasting. We're seeing a lot of changes, a lot of highs, a lot of lows. But what we thought we wanted is not what we really need.

Stacy Frazer 29:27

Oh, tell me more about that.

Matilda Swift 29:29

So both of us are changed genre this year. So we didn't set out to have a five-ac structure at the end of year one of the podcasts. We kind of jokingly said, Oh, we thought we knew what we were doing, and now we've just had the call to adventure. We're just at the now we know what we're doing stage. It really felt like that. And then year two felt like we really went through a lot of kind of mindset trial. And then we both thought we were on the right track. We were like, this is gonna be, I'm gonna do it, I'm a hundred percent succeeding right now. And then in year three, we're both like, I'm changing everything.

Samantha Cummings 29:57

Yeah, actually, no. Yeah. Which means act act four, better be delivering some good stuff.

Matilda Swift 30:07

But there will be good things in the end. Basically, think of writing in general gives us so much more than I think that we typically appreciate or that we slow down enough to appreciate. It's an endeavor that makes us create some tolerance for uncertainty because of either on the page within our plot or just in in the the attempt to publish and get readership and even make money from it, right? All of that is uncertain. It makes us patient. What's that saying you pay for patience and what you get is the opportunity to practice uh and perseverance. Uh I just wish more people appreciated, like, instead of focus on the outcome of the publishing or the money or whatever, they stop and just appreciate how they've transformed as a person. And that just kind of reminds me of like what you were talking about with these five acts. You're learning something new all the time, and it's shifting your trajectory and what you want. Probably because I don't know, maybe you've picked up lessons in your writing, I don't know, that perhaps make you more willing or more tolerant of the plan changing. I also think part of it is doing it together. I think we've been through a lot in the last few years, and I really think there were times when we both thought about quitting. Not necessarily seriously, but like maybe quitting publishing, well, not say quitting writing. And that might be the week when the other one was thinking, I'm doing really well this week. It's great, let's keep going. And just having that so much talk should evens you out a bit.

Samantha Cummings 31:46

Yeah.

The Dip Persistence Over Success

Matilda Swift 31:47

I listened to uh a bit of a Molly Shannon talk today, and she was saying she had a real period of doubt, and she's a a comedian and an actress, and she had a real period of doubt, she's wrong for a walk in the woods and things are not going well for me. And I should maybe just quit. And she was thinking about everyone or she knew who had quit. And she was like, I don't care. I'm here and trying. That is the thing that I want to be doing. It's not about the success, it's about the being here and trying. There are people who I know who they went back to their hometowns and they're just working for their parents' company, and I don't want that to be me. So it does feel like the trying is the more important part. Obviously, I would love to be really rich, but the persisting in trying is I would rather be doing that than doing something else. And that having somebody else do it with you feels like it enables you to keep going through long periods of maybe not getting anywhere.

Stacy Frazer 32:37

Yeah, absolutely. You have each other for accountability, for a sounding board, for support. That's a beautiful model that I hope that everyone can find. It's what I strive to create in my small groups because I just the other day I have a writer who recently joined. They've been wanting to write a novel for us forever and incredibly intelligent person, but they're held back by this idea that authors are magical. But then they've come into a small group with other people who are working towards the same goal, just like you said, working towards drafting a story, and their outlook is completely changing, they're having a shift in their own worldview and learning and acquiring skills. They're a completely changed writer now because of being in community with other people who allow them to feel okay about what they want.

Samantha Cummings 33:36

Yeah, we definitely fight feel like I know I do, but I think that we I can speak for both of us when I say that our Discord group is one of the best things to come out of this. It's one of my favorite places, but I feel but we're not in the Discord group as like the we're not teachers, we're not trying to teach people anything. We're just facilitating other conversation. And it's a real safe place to use like a buzzword. It's like a real safe space for us to hang out and you can just ask any questions. We have a channel in there called No Stupid Questions, where you can just ask whatever you want and there's no judgment. You can be like, I've been doing this for 10 years and I still don't know how to. Nothing stops me from asking the question. You know, in another kind of situation, you might be like, oh, shh, shall I ask this question? People will see that I've asked. And now I don't even hesitate. I have a thought and I think I could Google it and get confused in the results, or I could just say, has anybody done this? How do I do it? And somebody will have. And somebody will have done it.

Stacy Frazer 34:36

Please share how people can join your Discord group.

Samantha Cummings 34:41

It is. There's a link on our website to it. There is a link in our show notes on every podcast episode. Okay. I will make sure to include it in the show notes here. Yeah, all over the place. It's a very fun place. And yeah, no stupid questions.

Stacy Frazer 34:57

I love that. I love that. So when you're thinking about being in community, find people that you resonate with that allow for the no stupid questions.

Samantha Cummings 35:07

And I love seeing what other people ask as well. I think that's right there's no judgment. It's just you just see where other people are, like what they're thinking about, what they're working on. We're all at different stages, but we are all in the learning stage. So it's a very interesting channel to have a look through and see what stage people are at for learning.

Stacy Frazer 35:26

All right. We're coming to the end of our time together. So I had some rapid-fire questions for you, but I think we're just gonna table them. I guess the one thing I would love for you to finish off with before obviously you share where listeners can find you and what you're working

You Belong And Where To Connect

Stacy Frazer 35:41

on. What would you say to a writer who believes that they're not good enough to be a part of a community yet?

Matilda Swift 35:50

I'm in quite a few writing communities now. So I have like group take retreats together. We have our Discord, I have various WhatsApp groups and things. And it's interesting that everyone has really different skills. Some people are the ones who answer first and keep the conversation going. Some people are the ones who create the polls and keep things organized, some people are the ones who always know the resource that you need. Like whatever it is, I'm like, I've just seen a thing about that. Whatever it is, you will have a skill, and you might think you are the quietest lethal one in there, but there will be a thing that you do that no one else does quite as well as you do, and that is vital. Nobody wants just all the talkers or all the poll makers. That's pointless.

Stacy Frazer 36:25

I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing about your journeys and about what your podcast is about and how it's pulled you both together and helped you move forward and created a community that you obviously both love and a place where there's no stupid questions. I think that's the most beautiful thing ever. So now, since we're wrapping up, why don't you share where listeners can find you and what you're working on? What's coming next for you?

Samantha Cummings 36:56

Yep. I can be found on Instagram, on threads, on Facebook. I don't even know where I am. I've got a website. I am at Samo Rimo. I'm on TikTok as well. I'm at Samo Rimo, which is a play on NanoRimo. And I've claimed it, I'm keeping it. NanoRimo can burn and I will survive and rise to the images. Yes, I really am. So I'm at Samo Rimo. I uh yeah, and I'm also on the subsection. I'm all over the place.

Stacy Frazer 37:25

If there's a platform, didn't you say you're launching something? You've got a new book that's coming out?

Samantha Cummings 37:30

And I've got a new book that's coming out. So I I have a book coming out on the 26th of October, which is the final book in my dark academia series. And yeah, I'm very excited about that. I'm closing this series off, planning my next series. My next series is a uh dark urban fantasy series. So yeah, lots of fun things happening. I'm very excited.

Samantha Cummings 37:52

How about you, Matilda?

Matilda Swift 37:54

I have got two pen names now. I'm just starting a second one. So I'm Matilda Swift as Cozy Mysteries, and all my social media is under Matilda Swift Author for that. And then I'm writing as NW Swift for my Cozy Fantasies, which is not out until March next year. So we are wide away, so I've not got a book out for a bit. I've got a prequel for that coming out in January. But do follow me on social. They've got all my social setup, which feels very accomplished already. My website is set up but not made yet. That's on my list for this month. But yeah, so feel free to follow on either of those. And if you're looking for cozy fantasy marks, MW Swift is the place to follow. And if you're wanting to find the podcast, we're on socials. We don't do a lot with socials because we tend not to we're really about our existing community rather than just finding new people. So probably the best way to find us is our website, which is pentapaychecauthors.com. And we're on all the podcasting platforms. No thanks to me, that's awesome. But we are everywhere you find podcasts. We have a new episode every Wednesday.

Stacy Frazer 38:50

Thank you both so much. It was just a pleasure to hang out with you.

Closing Follow And Review

Stacy Frazer 38:54

Thank you for listening to the Write It Scared podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. And please leave a review. Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories. Let's lift each other up. Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable. I'll see you soon.