SPEAKER_01 0:00

My overall tip is just embrace it. To quote Spinal Tap, I feel like when you're revising, you're turning it up to 11. You're amplifying your plot. You're amplifying your characters and your story and everything that's important to you. And I think that revision gets a bad rap as the not the creative part of writing. It's the story generation. It's the freedom. It's the whatever. But I love revising because it's a great time to experiment and try things.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Welcome to the Write It Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formerly repressed creative soul, turned fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach. At Write It Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories. The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability, and the often subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it. This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to help you do that successfully. Join me each week for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers. Writing a novel is an inside job that we do not do alone. Welcome to Red It's Scared. I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hi, writer. Welcome back to the Write It's Scared podcast. Today is a guest episode, our final guest episode of the season, and I'm so excited to share this conversation with you. I'm talking with middle grade author Sarah Schachter, and we had a really thoughtful conversation about revision, resilience, and what it means to stay connected to the heart of your story over a very long haul. We chatted about her debut novel, Georgia Watson and the 99% campaign, which is a heartfelt story about friendships, making mistakes, science, and the idea that human beings are far more alike than we are different. But we also dig into the 15-year journey it took to bring this book into the world, from major rewrites to losing agents, trying to find a new home for the book, and then finally taking the manuscript all the way back down to the studs and rebuilding it from the ground up so it could become the version it is today. This episode is filled with wisdom about revision, creative persistence, and finding the joy in the process, as well as learning how to focus on the work instead of constantly chasing the outcomes. So I'm going to give you Sarah's bio in just a moment. But before we do that, I want to remind you that the Courage Files, which is a new segment that I'm introducing on the podcast next season, is open for submission. And it's all about celebrating listener wins. So if you have a writing win, if you've done something in your writing life that is hard, even if it seems small to you, uh, what matters is that you did it. And if you want to share that moment uh with me and uh give me the permission to share it on the podcast, I want to use it to inspire other people to do more of what you're doing. So this is a spread the wealth type of thing. And if you enter a submission for the Courage Files, then you will automatically be entered to win an editorial assessment of your pages as well as a book coaching session with me. So if you want to submit to the Courage Files, you can go to the link in the show notes, or you can head to writeitscared.co forward slash courage hyphen files. All right, here's Sarah's bio. Sarah's debut middle grade novel, Georgia Watson and the 99% campaign is everything Sarah loves: a heartfelt friendship tale, a scientific exploration, and a call for compassion. Sarah also writes picture books as well as magazine articles and educational nonfiction for kids. A former teacher, she currently tutors kindergartners through high schoolers. Sarah is also a passionate volunteer and works to turn the tide on climate change and political polarization. Sarah, hi, welcome to the Right Up Scared Podcast. I'm so happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Well, thank you for having me. I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, so how's your day going so far?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Going well, taking care of lots of little things so I could enjoy this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

So today we're going to talk about your debut middle grade novel, Georgia Watson and the 99% campaign, which came out in October of 2025. And I'm really excited for you to tell us what that 99% is about. So, listeners, that's your hook, right? That's that we're hooking you in right there because it's really cool. But before we get into that, would you just please share a bit about your journey into writing fiction and becoming a published author?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, for sure. So I've always loved writing stories. When I was in elementary school in junior high, I had a series of stories called The Adventures of Inspector Toenail. He was a giant toe who solved crimes. Don't cannot begin to tell you why. But I've always had stories in my head and they've always been centered in childhood. And I don't know if that's because I was lucky and I had a wonderful childhood, or if I'm basically a 10-year-old, but I've never wanted to tell stories about adults, just kids. So my first picture book I wrote when I graduated from college, and it was really bad. I didn't know anything about picture books. I didn't know they were 32 pages. I didn't know what I was doing. But at the same time, it was really great because it was sort of like putting a flag in the ground. I'm going to do this. So I wrote this terrible thing. And then I signed up for a class on writing kids lit. And it just lit me up. And I thought this is really what I want to do. And one of the great things that came out of that class was my critique group. So we were just a group of people who were serious about it. It wasn't just a thing we were putting our dabbing our toes into the water or whatever. So we started a critique group and one, it's I'm going to age myself. So this was the 90s, the early 90s. And one of the women in that class and I are still in this group. And it ebbed and flowed over the years, but my critique group has been together for decades at this point. So that was a wonderful thing that came out of that first class. The second thing I started doing was I joined the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, so SCBWI, Illinois Chapter. We have a wonderful chapter. And I didn't just join, I started volunteering, helping out. And in doing so, I started this great network of writers and illustrators. I like to say when I tell people outside of the industry what I do, I always say there are very few mean people who want to create books for children. So it's just such a lovely group of people. And by volunteering, I also started to get involved in program organization, which led me to meeting agents and editors, and that, as you'll see, came in helpful down the line. I first broke into publishing via nonfiction, actually. I'm a teacher. So that was a smooth transition. Educational publishing and magazine nonfiction. When I was volunteering with SCBWI, I did a pro, I helped organize a program with a magazine editor. And we hit it off. And she asked me to write an article for the first, uh, for the first issue of the magazine they were starting. And I got to, because of that experience, understand from the editor's point of view how you put together a magazine and what you're looking for. And so I wrote some things for her and for another editor there. And then I was able to parlay that experience into just submitting over the transome elsewhere. And then finally, fiction in an SCBWI publication again that says, oh, again, I don't think they they produced this without anymore. But there was a call from a small press for picture books. They were starting, they were a gift book publisher and they did, they wanted to start a children's line. And I happened to have this manuscript that was a picture book about wedding guest etiquette. So they wanted a pair, they wanted illustrator author together. So again, I'd met all these people. I reached out to a friend of mine who was trying to break in as an illustrator. We submitted together, and that ended up coming out in 2006. So that was my first fiction piece. So that was the short version of the very love for Jeremy.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, I would say that many of the writers who've come on the podcast that that publish in Kidlet are SCBWI is where they found their home, where they learned so much. So I always screw up the acronym. But so if you're out there and you're writing Kidlet and you're looking for community, if you're looking for resources, please do yourself a favor and go over to SCBWI. I always put the link in the show notes and I will do so today. She gets really excited. Um then they get to order we usually order my guest books and stuff. And so she's like, Oh, is this the lady? It's really funny.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

That was a lot of fun because I remember when I was a kid reading highlights in the doctor's office, and the idea that I had something in highlights was pretty thrilling, honestly. So and I would also add that if you join SCBWI, uh find the local group, not just the national, because the local is where you find your people and your things near your home and when okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

So let's talk about your book. Yeah, a full I know. I want to hear all about it. Georgia Watson and the 99% campaign. What's the book about and who are you hoping it will appeal to?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

So Georgia is a science-loving, rising sixth grader. She has moved annually since she was a kid. Her dad's an actor and he's moved all over the country. But mid-fifth grade, they came to Chicago, which is where I live in real life, and where we have lots of theaters, and her family decides to stay. So in fifth grade, she has met her first real true friend, Izzy. She can't wait to start sixth grade with an actual friend. However, as it happens in novels, however, when she's doing a project, a science project, she accidentally shares a secret that Izzy has trusted her to keep. And social chaos erupts. Mean girl, capital letters, tries to steal Izzy away. And George's error has cascading social effects throughout the class. And she has to figure out how to fix her mess. And the solution comes in a science fact, which is that genetically speaking, all human beings are more than 99% the same. So I can't reveal what happens after that because that would be no fun. But that's where the title comes from. Yeah, and I hope it appeals to any middle school kid, grades three through six. I think we're in a time in the world where it's important to acknowledge and search for what binds us together and not separates us. Absolutely. Diversity doesn't mean division. Right. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah. So what inspired this story, if you can think of anything in particular that drew you to it?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I don't know. So the bare answer. The back part is that from my the first time I started thinking about this book to the day it came out was 15 years. So what I remember is I had the scene in my head of this girl, and she's storming out the back door, and she slams the screen door and she's furious. And I have this first scene I wrote with this girl who wasn't named Georgia in her house with her dad and her brother and her mom had left. None of those people are in this book. Don't know. And I don't know when it took a turn towards science. I love science, so maybe I'm not sure how it morphed into that. Uh the whole 99% part of that and the genetics part, the idea of heredity and connectedness really resonates with me because of what's going on in our country. Not that there's any politics in the book, there's not. But I also, in my other life, volunteer with a group called Braver Angels, which is a group that's working to bridge the political divide among citizens. So that is very important to me thematically. So that spurred, I think, the book on as it took the shape that it is today.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah. How can we have conversations about our different opinions or the things that yeah, how we our different viewpoints without being aggressive or how can we learn to listen? And I've seen those here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I've found that when you talk to people who you think you disagree with, you find often to my surprise that there's much more overlap than I thought. That we've it's easy to stereotype all those things. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

So what was the path to publication like?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

It was long 15 years. In a nutshell, I wrote the book, revised it several times. My wonderful K group gave me feedback a couple of years, and I sent it to going back to SCBWI, an agent I had met who we were had gotten friendly, and uh she kept it for a while, and I was very excited. I thought this was gonna be it, and she decided to pass. She felt like it didn't fit where her list was going. But then uh she liked it, so she sent a word to all of the other agents at her agency. I have this manuscript. Is anyone interested? And it was a big no. And it wasn't a small agency, so I thought, huh, that's interesting. Uh so it gave me pause. And I went back to the book, and we'll talk about revision later, but realized that there was an awful lot I could do actually to make it better. And the month she had it was good because I had taken a break from it. So I came back and reread it, and I was like, Better in what way?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Better in uh things like scene by scene. So I was reading some of the scenes and I thought, wow, I really didn't maximize the tension in this scene. There is, I know you show and don't tell, but I'm not doing it at this moment in this scene. I could I can make this a lot better. I can make the characters pop a little more. I realized that at some points in the story, Georgia wasn't a really good friend. And not that all characters grow, right? But there were points at which I don't like her very much. Oh, that's interesting. Okay, you could make that a little better. And then in the middle of the book, Ice robbed her friend. And they're on the outs, so they're not together, but we never saw her. That doesn't work. So I started seeing a lot of things, which made me think, oh yeah, there's a there's actually a lot of work to do here. So I went back and did another big revision and realized this is actually a lot better. So at that point, I went out to seven other agents, six I had met through SCBWI, and one was a random. And I got two offers when one was the random person. So I I signed, and then that led to three more years of revising with my agent. And part of that was that she was very busy, so there wasn't fast turnaround, uh, but she had some good suggestions. And then when we were ready, we went out to four houses. And interestingly, all four editors said exactly the same thing, which was one, the emotional stakes weren't high enough. And two, there wasn't enough of a marketing hook. Uh and they all four people said the exact same. So that was a big red light. Um, and at that point, again, my agent was pretty busy. So she suggested I work with an editor at large. And when she started mentioning some people, she mentioned Deborah Halverson. And I had been at a conference in a breakout session with her, and I think she's wonderful. She's a fantastic teacher. She's super easy to work with, super kind. So I'm like, well, I'm gonna work with her. So I signed up with Deborah and she uh read the book. Um the emotional stakes part, I really felt like I knew what to do. I thought about it for a month or two, had a whole plan, knew how I could make it much better. There's a whole bunch of things in the book now that weren't in the book before. But the marketing hook, I was really stuck on. Like it's like a science book that's about genetics and heredity. Isn't that a hook? What is it supposed to be? I thought that was a hook. And so we talked about possibilities and it felt like we were just layering things on, like it wasn't coming organically from the book. And finally she said to me, and this was my big takeaway, and she was so kind because our contract was she was gonna give me written notes, but I was still stuck, so she talked to me on the phone to what she used to sub kind. And she said, So think of it this way: when someone thinks about your book, what are the it's the book about Phil in the Black, it's the book about the boy wizard, it's the book about the kid with Treacher Collins syndrome. My book is about a girl who gets in a fight with her friend and then they make up, and I'm like, uh I can see what that's a problem. So there wasn't something different to put in that blank that would make my book different than other books that had been out there. It took me five months of thinking and researching until I found that 99% fact that in pretty rapid succession, once I found that, I figured out how it could fit in the story, this whole campaign idea, and I was like, this is it. And then I had to grapple with the fact that it was gonna be another major revision. So I did another major revision during COVID. Is this the one where you took it back down to the studs? I took it back down to the studs. I deleted half of the book, in essence, and rewrote it all the way from the beginning. And then I had an a meeting with my agent. We were gonna send it out again. I was super excited. And when she picked up the phone, I realized something was up. And long story short, there were some things in her world, and she really felt like she couldn't keep moving with the novel because she wanted some more changes too. Um she was willing to keep representing my picture books, but she needed to step back from the novel that I had on the novel. So we parted ways. Um, she was very generous and very kind and gave me ideas for looking for somebody else. I looked for an agent for my for a while, wasn't finding one, but I was like, you know what? I'm gonna submit to places I can submit to myself. Um and I get publishers weekly, and I was looking through the reviews, and I saw a nice review of a middle grade novel from a place called uh Regal House Publishing, which I hadn't heard of. So short story. I looked them up, they took over the transom, I submitted, and I got an offer from them. So that's that was that story.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

That's amazing. First, I just want to applaud your tenacity and you know, it's the sticking with it. What do you think? Because what it sounds like to me, if I heard you right, is that the 99% piece of this really didn't come to fruition until that last big edit. Yeah. And that's kind of like the heart. Yeah it's it's part of the heart of the book. Yeah. And this idea that we're not that different. Yeah. Right? And it just because we act one way on the surface doesn't mean we're not all experiencing the same level of uncertainty or discomfort anyway. So having to take that book apart all the way back to the back to the stuff and build it back up again with that. Wow. That's just wow, that's such an inspiring. It's inspiring to me. So, how what made you want to stay with it? What kept you in it all this time?

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yes. I really enjoyed my story. Every time I did a big revision and saw it get better, it was so gratifying to see it change. And that last one where I was like, oh, good grief. I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to really rip the sucker apart. Um because I had worked with my agent and I had worked with Deborah, I I knew deep down that that I had figured out how to take it that last big step. That and I knew what I needed to do. I just needed to. Do it. And after all that time, I was like, for Pete's sake, how can I after investing all this time and knowing what I need to do? I just need to do it. I gotta do it. How can I not do it at this point? And because that whole 99% is very important to me outside of writing. I was like, all right, I'm in.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Do you have any tips about revision that you may have gleaned over the years that you want to share? Because what surprised me when we were exchanging emails is that you said that you really enjoyed revision, like the blank pages are daunting to you than working with some actual clay on the table. Right. And I'm like, wow, that's impressive, considering how much you reworked this book. So what yeah, do you have any revision tips that you can share for other middle grade writers? I do.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

So I hate the blank page because it can be anything. I feel like it's like being a powder and you have to make the clay. I'm like, I make clay? What? But once the clay is there, and I can work with it. Then I can shape it and what? But I hate that there's like a scaffolding once you've got a draft. And then I feel like I've found my sea legs in some way. Um my overall tip is just embrace it. Uh to quote spinal tap. I feel like when you're revising, you're turning it up to 11. You're amplifying your plot, you're amplifying your characters and your story and everything that's important to you. You're turning it up up to up. And I love that movie. And I think that revision uh gets a bad rap as the not the creative part of writing. It's the story generation, it's the freedom, it's the whatever. Um but I love revising because it's a great time to experiment and try things. When I was doing my delete 100 pages of my book and rewrite it from the studs, I did a whole bunch of stuff. I loved Donald Mass's book, writing the breakout novel. And what I liked about it was it's not just writing exercises. It's take your book and take the scene that doesn't work or whatever and do this exercise. And I found a lot of those super, super helpful. I had friends that do spreadsheets about things in their book. And so I tried a spreadsheet and I had the horror, this is horizontal. I had all my chapters, and then vertically I had things I needed to keep track of, be it what characters are in what scene, or when does the 99% campaign, when do they talk about it? Are they talking about it enough? Is there all those kinds of I like that whole thing? I color-coded some chapters sometimes when I just needed to see where things were falling. I'm old, so I like index cards, and I took the whole draft that I was about to destroy, and I made an index card for every single scene. And then I made a set of index cards for things that I knew were gonna have to happen, even if I wasn't quite sure how, I need a scene that accomplishes this or whatever. And then I could take scenes out of the old one and put C new scenes in, and then I could flip through it and see how it felt as I looked through my note cards. The whole process is for you. It can feed your creative soul. And unless I'm not a successful enough writer that I have contracts that some publishing house is waiting for me to finish, which is a lot of pressure. But assuming you're not in that position, tell everyone else to take a hike. Don't worry about finishing and submitting. It's just you and your characters, and you can do anything you want, and you can try all different kinds of things. And it can be freeing.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

I love that. It sounds like you're willing to be malleable, be adaptable, try things out instead of pushing towards always lies focused on an outcome. The outcome's there, that's the thing that you're going for. And instead, you just turn your attention to the story and the process in your characters. And I love that. I love that. And I'm gonna try that.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

What I've learned over time, again, I'm a little longer in the tooth than some of the some of my writer friends. But what I've learned over time is if it's the old, if you focus on the writing, you're gonna get to that goal faster because you're gonna have something better.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah, what we focus on tends to expand, whether that is the the discomfort and the doubt and the uncertainty, or the what the characters that are in front of us and the work that's in front of us. So let's talk about doubt for just a little bit. And you walked us through the revision process and and what that was like. And so was there ever a time when you were when you struggled? And the momentary doubts were louder than the willingness to continue. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

So when the when the very first agent passed and I really thought it was gonna be a go, I I definitely had the pout period. I didn't want, I had a little, a brief period of time, I think relatively brief, when I didn't even want to read middle grade books. I'm like, they got their book published. Well, can I get mine for both spite? I love spite. It's I don't want spite. And so yeah, that wasn't so fun. And then when I was searching for that 99% thing, I really wondered if I was ever gonna figure it out. It took me five months to finally find what that thing was gonna be. And I felt like I was disappointing my agent. When you have an agent, your their career and livelihood depends on you producing. And here I was completely stuck. And I thought, what if I never figured this out? I suppose that's a possibility. And I just stole it out for a while. But it ended up being a good thing that I stole it out because if I had jumped back in immediately and tried to figure it out, I would have either just been making lots of little changes that weren't doing anything, or I would have taken a wreck involved in the thing without a plan. So once I got that 99% idea, it really fell into place. And then when I realized it was going to be a ground-up revision, I revisited my pouting period for a little while. But then I was like, what else am I gonna do? And it's COVID. What else is there to do? That's yeah, that's what I did. Um post-writing struggle was losing my agent and having to go through that period of nose again and thinking, oh my God, after getting through the magic door, am I all the way back to where I started? But again, I tried to embrace that freedom of, okay, but I can submit it where I want now. I can submit to a small house that maybe my agent wouldn't have submitted to. I can take this manuscript that she wasn't super into, I can send it somewhere maybe. Not everywhere, plenty places are closed, but places I could. So that was very helpful. And yeah, just in terms of what did doubt look like before I was through the magic door, it did seem like that old cliche of trying to broach the doors of the castle. It seemed impossibly tall and a hundred feet thick. And I know people got in there, but I don't know how they got in there. And I'm a teacher too, and there's there's a straight path to teaching. You take the courses, you get the etiquette, and you teach. There's no path. Like, where's the path? Who's on the path? They do that. Oh no. Yeah, we did that. Now that I'm on, now that I the book out, um, the doubt goes more to the like the imposter syndrome. People I know who are in the starred reviews, or they're on the list, or they have another contract and the constant comparing yourself to other people. Um I tried again, I'm longer in the tooth than some other people, and I try to remind myself that getting a book published is a miracle in and of itself. How many people talk about doing it and never do it? How many people start and never finish? And I need to remember that is a little shining star in my life. Um, and I also am very uh cognizant of connecting with people in person regarding my book. I love doing school visits and seeing the kids. I like, I've got friends who support me. And the truth is in most books that are published, and I remind myself this too, do not get starred reviews, do not get on those lists you see all the time. They don't do those things, but they do impact kids. And that's the point.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

So that's where I need to focus. Yeah, I had my daughter's babysitter. She's 13 and she comes over like when I have to work in my office. And so she came in my office, and I have a pull on YA shelf, and she's all whoa. And she's pulling these authors off the shelf, and she's like, Oh, yes, I loved this one because of X, Y, and Z. And I loved this one because of X, Y, and Z. I'm like, you can borrow anything you want here, but it absolutely does. It absolutely makes such a our stories matter whether they get what they're they're gonna they matter to us, and because of the 99% thing, yeah, matter to somebody else. Yeah, we're not all that different, right? So I absolutely love that. Speaking of life and of teachings, how do you find the time to dedicate to the writing? What does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah, so my life now, so I was a classroom teacher for a long time, and then I did freelancing. I have twin boys, so when they were born, I was home with them and writing when I could. And now I teach and tutor, I write and tutor, sorry. And my way of dealing with the writing life is to remember that the definition of writing is relative. So, what does that mean? If there is a day when all I can muster is the tweaking the intro to something or a paragraph of something, or sending an email to a school that might want to have a school visit or whatever, I've started asking myself the question at the end of the day if I'm feeling pouty. How did I move things forward today? Instead of I should have done X, Y, and Z. What is something I did that moved things forward? And if all I did was send out that email, hey, maybe I'll get a school visit and I'll talk to a hundred kids or 200 kids. That would be awesome. Every day doesn't have to look the same and doesn't have to be filled with whatever.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

And again, there's no straight path, there's no right way to be a writer, which is a hard thing to accept, especially if you come from a very linear or a kind of STEM background, too. Because there is a path. There, there's a clear path. I came from a medic, a medical background. There was a very clear path to become a PA and to practice medicine. And it's when you're a writer, it's a bit of a mystery. You can walk in at any time and sit down at the table and you are a writer, right? If you decide to be one. And of course, you can go through a traditional education route, but it's not necessary. And so when I first came to writing, I was like, is that what I need to do? Because I was looking for the I was looking for the stairs, right? Show me the stairs. I'll go up. I'll go up. And then people were like, you don't really have to do it that way. You could, but there's also this way and there's that way. And you just kind of got to choose what's best for you. And I'm like, wait a minute, what do you mean? What do you mean what's best for me? I I'm just supposed to pick something and go in that direction. Oh, this doesn't work like that. Okay. But and then the other thing I wanted to, yeah, I remember what I wanted to say earlier is I heard this quote. I think and I don't know who said it. I know who I heard it from, which was KJ Delantonia, who has uh the hashtag am writing podcast, or she did actually. She just took a step back from it, but she said uh there is something on her desk. It's she has this saying on her desk uh the number one reason why a book doesn't get published is because it didn't get written. Oh and I've that's stuck with me. That's always stuck with me. Um so I'm I use that against the idea of broaching the castle, right? It's like yeah, maybe no, but I'll certainly never figure it out if I don't try. Right. And what I got from your uh you said about how you work writing into your life and how your life is changed over from having small kids to to now, you know, um doing something, doing something still in alignment with teaching, but it's tutoring and writing and moving forward just a little bit every day is more about being consistent than it is about being intense. Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

So about what you what your next step is gonna be.

unknown 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And celebrating your gains, right? And recognizing the effort behind the gains. That's something that I preach to the people that work with me, the writers that work with me. Do you know that saying that's the thing you teach is the thing you lean need to learn the most for yourself? Because I really struggled to do that for myself. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

The other thing is that uh there was a period when I was just writing. I wasn't doing any teaching and I wasn't doing anything else. And I found that very difficult because I was putting all of my eggs in one basket. I was putting my identity all in one basket. And publishing is frustrating, and publishing is difficult, and publishing cannot get down. And what I finally realized was I can't be doing just this. That's not for me, that was not good for my mental health. So that's when I I started uh teaching, I was teacher's aid in a kindergarten class, which is the funniest job on the world.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

They're adorable. Oh my god, it was hilarious. Every day was hilarious. I don't know how our kindergarten teacher does it, though. She it's a mystery to me. Uh they do all these funny things, waterfall, shh, and everybody quiets down, and I'm just amazed.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Oh they are kindergarten teachers are amazing. But once I was doing something else and I found that other part of my identity, writing became joyous again because I wasn't putting all pressure.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

I know for me, the dream would be to write full time, right? That would be the dream to write full time to make but then again. I also know me, and me likes to think that wherever someone else is better. Yeah. Yeah. It's just that grass is greener when if I and instead I'm growing into this real appreciation of understanding that I'm right where I need to be and seeing the beauty in where I am, right? And the benefit. And I think for people that have not published yet, there's a beauty there. There's there's no outside expectation or pressure other than what we put on ourselves. And one of the keys to moving forward is learning how to lower that pressure enough so where our brain doesn't think that this is too dangerous for us to engage with. So, yeah, lots of good things. It sounds like SCBWI was a fantastic resource for you, uh, not only for networking purposes and also finding a way to volunteer, a way to give back, a way to be a part of, uh, but also a way to learn craft. Were there any other resources that you turned to that were particularly helpful learning the craft?

SPEAKER_01 38:05

My my top five are if you can find a critique group, that's a lovely thing. I have really benefited from professional critiques as well, going to a conference or doing something online and being able to submit for critique. I like when somebody who hasn't seen any of my writing looks at it fresh and can give me specific comments on my writing. I find that very helpful. And similarly, I really enjoy classes or breakout sessions or conferences that look like they're going to be super specific in terms of giving concrete writing examples. So for instance, I'm not a big fan personally of breakout sessions or classes that are the top 10 things not to do or whatever, because I find them very vague and like I probably know that, or I could intuit that. But I was at a conference and I was in a breakout session with an editor who gave me who gave whose whole thing, the whole point of the breakout was one of the greatest writing tips ever because it was so concrete. It was specificity leads to believability. So the girl didn't put on her shoe, she put on her red high top with the purple spangly shoelaces or whatever. In Georgia, she there's a story about how when she's little, she gets fascinated by earthworm that she names Grimy. And she's just like, I don't understand this thing. Like, how does it breathe as it has no mouth, it's got no eyes, why doesn't it have arms and legs? What is going on? And it wasn't just she was curious about animals, it was this very specific thing that she had this animal and with her grandfather and blah blah blah. And he would take with his with his client's permission, I think, put a page up on the screen. This is what it was, this is what we talked about, and this is what it ended up. And you could see it change. And Molly O'Neill, who was an editor and is now an agent, did a similar breakout once that I was in, where she got permission from her clients and she showed a first page uh when she received the manuscript and the first published page and talked about the differences. And I find that super helpful. Similarly, I like writing books like Donald Mass, which has exercises I can use on my manuscript, and of course reading.

unknown 40:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

Reading a lot.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah. Yeah. It's so it sounds like getting editorial feedback was big. And then also specific examples that you could look to. And I think what's important to take away there is a draft. We take it as far as we can ourselves, right? And maybe with our critique group, and but there's always more to do. And always more. There's ways that we can make it even better, but that doesn't mean we can get there ourselves. Oftentimes we need outside perspective, which comes that editorial feedback, right? So the idea here isn't here's what it was, and now here's what it is. I think the idea that we want to wrap our heads around is one is not necessarily the what it was isn't bad. It becomes better through combined effort and input. And the expectation isn't necessarily to bring it in perfect. It's just like exploring like how we grow. I don't know if I said that as clearly as I thought it in my brain. But that's the best that my mouth could do. But anyway, my point is progress, not perfection, and it takes the village. That's the point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Instead of looking out different kinds of perspectives. Your fellow writers, professionals, agents, editors.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

All right, just the last couple of wrap-up questions. What's the best piece of writing or creative advice you've ever received? It might be that specificity believability, is it?

SPEAKER_01 42:10

That is the best thing I ever received for sure. It really changed my writing. I love that. And what is your wish for your fellow writers out there? I hope they find joy in what they're doing. That's really it. I know some writers who are having a lot of success, especially a little early out of the block, and they're not happy. They're like stressed out, they're worrying about what they should be doing and how to sustain things. And they're not appreciate the amazingness of what they've done of having a book in the world. And I think wherever you are in the process, I really hope that people can find something to enjoy, being the creation or the community. And I get that it can be frustrating for sure. But if you can find what brings you joy in the process, that's important.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

And it's easy to forget. So I encourage you, any listener, to try to identify a process that leads you back to it, back to that joy that you get in the weeds, because it happens. Oh yeah. It happens sometimes damn near daily for me. But how to find your way back to the magic, back to that joy. And I think one of the big things that you touched on is why you were writing in the first place, like why this was important to you, why this particular story was important to you, why 99% was important to you. And then just playing with your characters and giving yourself permission to try different things and try different angles. I'm a 100% believer that lowering the pressure on something is a direct route to at least feeling better. Just no small thing. Yeah, because I don't know about you, but I've never been able to beat myself into happiness. I've tried. Yeah, but it doesn't really work. Is there anything that you would like to share that you're currently working on? And then where can listeners find you and your book, Georgia Watson and the 99% campaign? Thank you for asking.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Currently, I'm working on I have a manuscript of submissions. That's exciting. And then I have two that I'm finishing up, and I have a new novel that I'm working on. And I learned from writing the first one things that I need to do differently for myself as a writer this time. So instead of rushing to my group with my first chapter, I'm doing a lot more planning. And I'll probably write several chapters before I bring it to them. Because what I learned was when I wrote the first chapter and made it better from what they said, that sort of seemed like it was done. And everything else had just come from that. It was actually more restrictive. So I'm gonna do a lot more writing before I bring it to them this time.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

What do they say? What the two most rewritten moments of your story are usually the opening and the ending. That is sort of true. So don't get the chisels out yet.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Right. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

We don't need to set in stone.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Yeah. And yeah, so and I'm at Sarah Fsachter.com is where I am. Okay. I will put that link in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. This has been delightful. Thank you for having. Thank you for listening to the Write It Scared podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. And please leave a review. Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories. Let's lift each other up. Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable. I'll see you next week.