SPEAKER_01 0:00

When there were still a lot of open questions and things that I that were beyond my control in the world around me or my personal life, I felt like this book and this story grounded me. And but I think the way that I might have grown in is that I have learned to listen to my own voice a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Welcome to the Write It Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formally repressed creative soul, turned fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach. At Write It Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories. The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability, and the often subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it. This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to help you do that successfully. Join me each week for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers. Writing a novel is an inside job that we do not do alone. Welcome to Reddit Scared. I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hi, writer. Welcome back to the Reddit Scared Podcast. I'm your host, Stacey, and this is where we talk about the brave and the messy act of writing our novels so that we can do it with more confidence, more clarity, not feel so alone. Today's a guest episode. And I'm so excited to introduce you to Sheffik Khan, author of the debut middle grade novel, Zena Lost and Found. And this is a conversation about writing stories that explore identity, belonging, and adventure through the lens of historical fiction. We talk about the inspiration behind the novel, the real life history that shaped the story, and what it was like to balance all the research and what to put on the page with the action adventure slash mystery plot, as well as the emotional character growth. We dig into the long road to publication and how to handle difficult editorial feedback, give tips on ways to build community, and talk about how to learn to trust yourself as a writer. So if you've ever struggled through revisions or you're writing and you feel alone, questioned whether your story was working, or you just need a reminder that your growth as a writer happens one messy draft at a time and you just need to keep going, this episode is for you. Let me give you Shafek's bio and then we'll jump into the interview. Shafek Khan is a middle-grade author, lawyer, and mom. Born to Pakistani parents, Shafak grew up in a small port city along the Persian Gulf called Jubal Industry City, a place that barely makes it onto most maps, but it would shape her worldview and forever cement her identity as a third culture kid. It is there that Shafek discovered the world of books at her school's magical library. She attended college in New York City, majoring in political science in Middle Eastern and Asian languages and cultures before heading to law school. After law school, Shafecht worked for nearly a decade as a legal services attorney representing low-income people with disabilities facing housing and benefit issues. In this role, Shafek became acquainted with people's stories, the ones they tell and the ones they don't, and learned to listen to the story beneath the surface. Hello, Shafek. Thank you so much for coming on the Ride It Scared podcast. I'm delighted to have you here to talk about your debut middle grade novel, Zaina, Lost and Found. So we're going to get into that and just talk about your writing process and your journey. So, but before we do, would you please share with our listeners how you came to be a writer yourself and a published author.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Thank you so much for having me on Writed Scared Stacey. I'm so excited to talk a little bit more about, frankly, the most uncomfortable parts about this journey and to get it all out there. So really excited to dive into that with you. My journey, I think, started on, started off pretty early because I think even when I was younger, I loved books. Uh, avid reader, just devoured series after series, like Judy Balloon, Babysitter's Club, Nancy Drew, like anything. I just was totally a series girly and loved reading. If I got bored, I read, I was done with whatever, exhausted whatever was in-house, I actually would write a lot. And that actually started on the earlier side of my life. I would say by the age of 10, I was writing something for fun. And I think when I continued on in high school with a lot of encouragement from those high school teachers that are just really inspiring, give you the right amount of feedback on also how to improve, the positive feedback to build your confidence. I got real lucky on that, both my sophomore and junior year with AP classes. And then in college, I feel like I had an opportunity as a liberal arts major to delve in deeper, but obviously in a different kind of way, but continue my writing, building my writing skills. And then I came back to fiction after becoming a lawyer and realizing that I wanted to put something out there in the world that was a way for me to discuss my point of view on things. And so I think I feel very lucky to have had the opportunity to write fiction. I viewed it as an escape from a lot of the exacting parts of being a legal services attorney. At that time, I was advocating for tenants who had disabilities and were being evicted from their affordable housing and had an opportunity to learn more about their stories and then advocate on the basis of those stories in front of a judge to help keep them in their homes. And it was sort of, I was, I didn't realize it at the time, but I think my ability to write fiction was actually honed from being a lawyer. I really do feel like being able to tell someone else's story is what you're doing ultimately when you're writing fiction. And that's also what I was doing as a legal services attorney. So I was really excited to have developed the skills through work to apply it to my fiction writing, but also viewed it as an escape from the harsh realities of poverty lawyering. And I think just in terms of becoming a published author, that's a whole other story. So I'm happy to dive into that. But we'll get into that.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

We'll get into that. Amazing, amazing. So clearly, early love of reading. I think in your bio you referenced that there was a magical library where you grew up. So clearly it's this has always been near and dear to your heart. And then, yeah, so let's talk a little bit about your book. So Xena Lost and Found, which was released last September. We're recording in January of 2026. So September of 2025. So congratulations. It's a beautiful book. It has such a beautiful cover. It looks like such a fun story, and the blurb is very fun too. So why don't you share with us what inspired you to write that particular story? And then we'll talk a little bit about going into the publication of that, what it took to write it and get it published.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Yeah. So this Susanna Lost and Found is a historical fiction adventure featuring a 12-year-old British Backsani girl in the year 1970. And she's somebody who feels like not exactly a fit anywhere, like in school or even in her own home in many ways. And part of what she does to cope is really let her imagination run wild about mysteries that don't really exist for the most part, and solving those mysteries and playing detective until a real mystery does come her way. And she happens upon strange mandates following her and her parents. And then when they leave their home in London for holiday in Pakistan, things get more spicy, no pun intended. And when they reach Pakistan soon after being there, you can things are getting a little bit, still a little bit uh piquing her spidey senses, and she's wondering why people are acting a little bit strangely, or there's certain information that she's getting that about a stolen jewel and how it might be tied to frankly the strange man that has been following her. And then her parents disappear. And so that's where we have the the event that really shapes the rest of the book. Because then Zaina has to figure out why her parents disappeared and also clear their name in the process because part of their disappearance is that they have been accused of stealing this precious jewel that she had been reading about all this time. And so, as part of that, she ends up embarking on this journey that frankly is unfathomable to us sitting here in January 2026, where she safely traverses parts of northern Pakistan, enters Aranistan, goes to Gabul, goes to Tehran, and then ends up in Istanbul. And that is made possible also by a real route called the Hippie Trail. And I think I was just so intrigued by this idea of the Hippie Trail because of the fact that it's something that I would never have imagined could even exist, right? This idea of crossing borders safely, having these cultures be like accessible to you. And I mean that frankly more financially and also logistically through overland transportation. And I know that this is something that existed and that a lot of travelers went on because obviously it's a very well-documented phenomenon. And I can talk a little bit more about my research later. But also, my mother-in-law, who herself is British Pakistani, actually also took this trip. So she in the early 70s, it wasn't the year 1970, and I can talk about why I chose that year in particular. But in the 70s, her and her family had to drive back from Pakistan to their home in London. And they made that trip. Family of five, youngest one was under a year old, and they made that trip safely. And she talks a lot about what she observed about these different cultures and cities. And so I thought this would be really amazing to capture a moment in time in a lot of these locations. And then also, I think, talk more about Zaina's internal journey as well, as someone who is very much views herself as being British, but also about Cassani.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Wow. Oh my gosh. It sounds sounds like there's so much of real life that inspired pieces of this that drew you maybe into what you researched. That's really cool. Yeah. And wow, that's a lot to pack into for an adventure hold for a 12-year-old girl. Whoa, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

And there has to be some suspension of belief, I think, overall in some ways, right? But I think I think it's yes, exactly, right? But the underlying facts are the same, right? The underlying factual reality of taking these routes, taking this train, staying in this hostel, these are all based on real, real aspects of the hippie trail, right? What were the what was a hostel's name in in Tehran that hippies would frequent? And what were the restaurants that they would visit in Kabul? Or how did they enter this one part out of northern Pakistan? And what did they do there, right? And so these are actually all based in reality. But yes, this idea of a 12-year-old navigating that is a lot, but who wants adults, anyways, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

If we're trying to figure out a mystery, right? Children certainly do not want adults speaking to them through their stories. It's that we we don't want any of this. Children don't want any finger wagging or whatever. So yeah, would you mind sharing just a little bit about the what was the process like of gosh, going back in time and weeding through all that research and deciding what to include, what to leave out, and how to keep the entertainment, the action impact front and center? Because that's really what's driving the story is it sounds like this girl is she's in an unfamiliar place, having to solve a mystery, find her parents, clear their name. That's a lot, right? That how'd you go about that doing that?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I love this question because it's a really perceptive question, perceptive framing of the question when you ask me what did I include and what I didn't include, because that's such a that is exactly the question people should ask be asking about even our history books, probably, but especially historical fiction, because it's not meant to be a history book. And so you can't really cover all the bases, but and especially if you are focused on the action and propelling the plot along based on the action, then you might be able to give some context of certain dynamics, and other times you can delve into it a little bit more. And so there is a lot of, I think, my own probably biases for what I did want to feature and what I may not have wanted to feature as much or what I couldn't feature, right? Some of it is just again, my nine-year-old, 10, 9, 10-year-olds, even eight-year-olds that might be reading this book, might be more interested in the plot. And then I think my slightly older readers, like the 12, the 13-year-olds, like they can probably pick up some of these historical or political contexts, hopefully, or at least spark a conversation. There is back matter as well to provide some additional color to some of the locations that Zayna visited. But I think that's exactly right. So I think firstly, just reading books that provided a good overview of what the hippie trail entailed. And there's one that in particular called with by Rory McLean that I just loved that kind of gets into like country by country, city by city. What were not just what were the places like in terms of what would people be doing? What would someone who's on a budget, who's unfamiliar with their cultural surroundings, where would they go eat, right? But also more uncomfortable aspects of those of that travel, which is that sometimes people will get sick from the food. Sometimes there was like cultural disconnect. Sometimes you might be sleeping on the road because you're you did stretch your budget out, or because of the context of it being 1970, people will get lost, right? Like straight lost, which is just like a wild set of dynamics to consider. And so I think I always initially when I started this project, I was enjoying the research almost too much because again, reading the book through the books that provided some overview about the hippie trail, which I'm also happy to share and link, but also actually about a British Pakistani spy, which I'm also happy to link. But um I think those gave me really good macro understanding. And then pouring over again documented aspects of this travel through blog entries, photos, and letters exchanged between travelers was also another way to, again, flesh out what it felt like to be someone who is European, navigating a the flat terrains of central Afghanistan and but happening upon like an untouched, beautiful, natural wonder and what you would do in that situation. So I think a couple of things that come to mind when I think about what I would include, but what I may not have included. One of the important characters in the book is based on a real life poet who was imprisoned during during that time by the Shah of Iran because he was critical of what the Shah's like economic policies were and whatnot. And so there's a whole character that's based on this poet. And again, that matter kind of gets into this a little bit more. And so I encourage people to take a look at it. But that's somebody who I dedicate a whole character to. But there were also other indications that protests were there's an undercurrents of protests happening. Zaina and Maher and Amin are the three main characters of the book, walk through a bazaar in Tehran and notice that the merchants aren't there, that a lot of the shops are shuttered because they're on strike and that the Haran bazaris were viewed as like a litmus test of what the people were feeling about the economic state of affairs. And that, by the way, is still true. I think that the bazaaris are a play a very critical role in Iranian society on that front. And so, anyway, so that's like an example of something that I didn't really get into, but they note that people are that the shops aren't open and there's a reason for that, right? But again, I did balance that out with perhaps a character that does provide a more incomplete. Yeah, exactly. So I think there's like a lot of your what sparks your interest, but also balancing again, moving the action forward and not making it a travel log, right? Because that's not what kids want to read.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah, I'm just thinking about all the elements of conflict that are natural to the story. There's environmental conflict, social and economic and political conflict here. You probably have some conflict between your characters just because of personality. And then you also have the antagonistic character player, whoever is doing the bad thing or creating the mystery of the puzzle. So wow. Yeah, that is a lot. So when did you first get the idea for this particular story? And what was the writing process like for you?

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Yeah. So I knew the the con the background, right? I knew that when it was gonna be set, and I knew I needed to do world building around that uh to flesh out the historical context. In terms of the actual adventure story, I almost feel like that did come a little bit later in some ways and much more organically. I started off with a one-page plot. It was like, what do I want Zanep to be doing? And how do I want to get there? And I I really enjoy international conspiracy and spy stuff. Big fan of that. Love study spies, for example. To me, then that's my my go-to genre that I will consume, both in terms of books and also in terms of show TV content. I I love John Lacarr, I love shows that are based on John Lacar. It's just I think a really rich way to talk about a mystery and add that element to it. So I think that just that outline I was looking at actually in preparation for this podcast, it does not resemble the book today. So that's all to say that you can write the book in that after you do the outline, you do a chapter outline, and maybe you also do a storyboard and you actually just start writing. I think that's really important. Just start writing, get and put pen to paper, so to speak. But that editing process will make will change whatever you wherever you started off from. It will change it quite dramatically. And I think that's good. So I think I had too many adult characters, for example, in the beginning. I think some of the action was not as it was not earlier on enough. Sometimes it there was like too much focus on, frankly, the maybe the historical context I wanted to paint or the geographic descriptions I was getting, and we needed to add some more action back into it, right? So I think there was actually, again, for me, a little bit easier to write more about the what I was researching. Maybe that was almost maybe the lawyerslash Paul poli sci person and me bringing that, being really interested in that. But actually writing fiction, the story about Zaina and how she's being chased in these stories in different instances by the bad guy, or how she's uncovering clues, that was an interesting and tricky thing to make sure that I had enough of, right? And I would just describe my process again as being highly iterative and a lot of editing. And also I think just keeping my eyes and ears open for when inspiration stuck, because sometimes it wasn't necessarily when I was at my laptop writing. Sometimes it was when I was on a walk or you're talking to someone and they mentioned something and that makes you think about something else. And maybe there's again some other content that you consume. And so then you were like, okay, this is an interesting sort of thing that I might want to include, or this aspect of it I might want to put in for the action. And so I think I hope I answered your question, but I think again, it was a very roundabout way that I did the action part of it, but I do feel like fleshing out the world building was a little, frankly, for me, a little bit more straightforward.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah. So it definitely sounds like you understood. The where and the when. Yeah. And the how came later. Did you always know the who? I guess my question is is well, what made you decide to write this from a 12-year-old girl's perspective?

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah, that's a such a good question. I didn't always know who because I kind of wanted her to be a little bit older. And I felt like that was more realistic for her to be maybe 15, 16 and doing this, these hijes. At some point, they're like in an embassy. Now they've essentially broken into an empty. I think I was reading books that were in that were comps, right? Whenever I felt like there was I needed a break from what I was writing, I naturally just kept on the reading front, right? Because again, you never know when inspiration might strike. And also I feel you should look at people's art, right? You should look at how other people are refining their craft. And I noticed that there was an opportunity in at that stage, that 12-year-old, that 11, 12-year-old stage, where you're not as maybe aware of everything, but you are becoming aware. And also that there's like, of course, like of this like coming of age like part of it that felt like actually ripe for a lot of internal development. And also, I think probably reflecting back on my own personal experience, like I do think being 11-12 was particularly challenging because you were finding your footing with in school, with your friends, again, with your own family, maybe. And I think it's a nice opportunity to capture that audience and let them know hopefully through this character Zaina, that if you have felt like an outsider, that is a like normal part of the that is part of the human existence. And that what I hope they take away from this, which I think Zaina does, is that despite feeling unless you're Moored at many many junctures, not feeling British enough, not feeling Pakistani enough, not feeling like she knows enough about her family, not knowing where her place is with her friends or with her mom and dad or with even her siblings, that ultimately she keeps choosing to belong. That ultimately she keeps thinking, you know what? I do belong in maybe all these places, these spaces. Because what I want people to take away from this is that everyone deserves to belong. And especially again, I want that message to go through to this particular age range of readers.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I love that. Yeah, I find middle grade fiction in this that a little upper middle grade fiction, it's often about like I did your changing. And I have a nine-year-old, so I'm like witnessing this. It's like you're changing more societal pressure is coming in, and it's it's like defining who you are within the relationship of your family in a way that is different than it has been before. And then, of course, like I I love the kind of what I like to call the through line of desire, the internal desire for the character is about belonging, where the external goal for your character is about solving the mystery, finding her parents. And because she has to go through this, she finds out something about herself, you know, that that creates a bit of a not a reckoning, but uh another level of awareness or acceptance. I love that. That's so beautiful. So beautiful. Oh my gosh. When did you get the spark for this story idea? Do you recall?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I want to say it's probably early 2018, like January, February of 2018. Took a while.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, stories do. They take a while to bake, especially when you're juggling life. Right? There's always the life.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

There's earlier reasons not to be doing it, right? To be doing something else. Um absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Absolutely. But I'm so glad that you did because now we have this beautiful story in the world. So, what was the path to publication like once you got the draft to the place where it was ready to be looked at through other eyes? Did you query? How was the query process?

SPEAKER_01 24:07

So I have a very non-traditional query story querying story, which is that I did query and that just fell flat on its face. And that's again totally normal and disheartening, which is also want to normalize that feeling of feeling like you're pushing against the wall a little bit, frankly. And then I had an introduction to someone, and that unlocked a conversation with my now agent. And I just it's a good example of why being, for example, a member of SCBWI or at other groups is really important because you never know when you might get introduced to someone. Sometimes you'll have agent spotlights. I definitely got my manuscript reviewed by agents whenever I could, even before I had an agent. And then, and it was really through that process that I again had this introduction and was able to get it in front of someone in a way that, again, with a warm introduction, I'm not sure without the warm introduction, sorry, I'm not sure I would have been able to even get eyes on it, right? That's really the tricky part about querying because you really want them to get eyes on it. And my querying process was a little bit not traditional from that perspective. And then once I had the agent, he we obviously went on sub and pitched it to publishers and was getting a lot of, I got like maybe 18, 19 rejections, and none of them were giving me good feedback about what. In fact, they were just like great boys, love the story, but there were things like we are doing something similar, or we don't we don't know about historical fiction. This was a big historical fiction was also tricky. They're like middle grade market is tricky, and then historical fiction is even more tricky, and so there was some of that feedback. There was one feedback that I did incorporate, which was like, what do you think about actually making this in present tense? And so I did spend some time because with going on sub, they go in rounds. And so between rounds, I did make that change because when I tried it for a few pages, I really liked how it frankly propelled the action forward as well. And it made you feel it in a more palpable way. Yeah, it feels more meeting, exactly. So that was like one thing that I did. And then honestly, I got I got matched with Learner. And the key thing with my editor at Learner is that she just got this book from the beginning. I I really feel like when she gave the feedback for why she wanted to buy the book, it was exactly what I wanted to hear. She was like, I love Zayna, I love how she's navigating her relationships and how she had this internal journey as she's like now, everything that you're saying, but she was saying. And so just this feeling of having your work be seen, like truly you feel seen, it was incredible. And so then once learner bought the book, the patent publication took a while, to be honest, because it was like almost two years. I it sold in June 2023. I went on sub in like fall of 2022, sold in June 2023, and then it was published in September 2025. So during that process from like three to 25, there was some editing, but thankfully not a ton. I there there was no major structural difference changes, no characters were killed off, which I was worried. I'd heard that was a thing that could happen. So I was like worried. But um, I was really grateful for that. And then about a year out from September 2025, it basically goes to print, so to speak. And so you can't touch it after that point. Maybe there's a little bit less than a year.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

But, anyways, that's roughly what my path was like. Thank you for sharing that. I just I love to hear the journey of how an idea becomes a book and how it's so different for everyone. And my hope is for people listening, if you're listening, listen up, is that just because it's a lengthy process doesn't make it that does that doesn't mean anything. Sometimes I think we get so focused on the one that's gonna make it, or is this the book that we're gonna that it just books take what they take to bring to fruition, is my point. And so I just love that you shared your journey.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

And that, and I feel like I totally agree, first of all, everything you're just saying, because I think that's the tricky part about writing a book, because there are so many moments to exit out of it because you feel like this is taking too long, it's not gonna happen, and I need to come back to it too often. There's I've moved, I've maybe I've had a kid, maybe something else has happened. And so I completely agree with you that that five-year period from 2018 to 2020. Oh, maybe that's my mouth is wrong. 2018 to 2022 is four years. It was really, there was a lot of points where I was like, I think I'm just gonna shelf this, think about it another time. And I'm really glad that I kept at it because the feeling of meeting someone who has read my book, especially I love adult readers because they can articulate like what their feet like what their expression is in a different way. But young girls, boys, like that has been like one of the most moving aspects of this that I don't think I was fully prepared for. You know, I get emotional hearing from people. I'm like, like that character. Oh my gosh, you like that. It's just like it's it's so I love it.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

So keep at it. Yeah, that's a nice tie-in, actually, a good segue to talking about kind of the heart of the what the podcast is about, the Write It's Scared Podcast, is talking about times when the writing got hard, but when there were struggles during either a writing phase of the book or just in the waiting phases of the waiting phases, because there are a lot of waiting phases once once we've brought something to to the end game, and then we're trying to get it out in the world. So can you think of a time of when you struggled and what that was like and what helped you move on or move forward?

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I was just lucky to have a lot of beta readers of people who were just in my orbit, friends, family, friends, kids, even who were willing to just read this book, which is I don't know, I still find it like a wildly kind thing to do because some of those drafts were terrible. There was one particular feedback that I got, and it was uh again, really trusted friend, and it was late in the process. So I want to say kind of frankly, then early 2022, and I went on sub in late 2022, and it was just like the edit was kind of got to the main aspect of the thing. She was like, I don't really get it. What are they, what where what are they gonna, what's the what's sort of what are they trying to solve for? The these clues are really difficult to parse, but maybe this is also just me and how I never follow other mysteries, like when I watched them. She was kind of joking around that maybe it's and I couldn't unsee that. And that was very hard because it I did a pretty big rewrite, frankly, including getting rid of some adult characters that had somehow lingered on until that point. And many of them had already uh had written them out, but there was definitely still one that was left that I adored, but I had to just take them out. And then there were a few other adult characters that I had to make less important to the action and making the action happen that it wasn't driven by my 12-year-old and her trusted companions. So that was, I think, really tricky. But just this idea that the plot may not make sense, and it was I had been working on something for years at that point, writer's circle, other beta readers. I joined a workshop at Stanford, you know, those writing workshops. So I had that some editing route that way, not the whole book, parts of it. But this idea of getting that feedback was really difficult. I had to just step away from it, to be completely honest. Did not look at that feedback. Then I went back and I organized the feedback with a lot of intentionality. So, first looking at what was the overall plot feedback, then what was the chapter feedback, and then just going in line by line. And I think it it really helped to take breaks, but it was, again, really difficult to come back to it. And I do think having this organized way to make sure my plot is clearly delineated in a way that a reader could follow that made sense, that was moving forward, the right amount of momentum, but also good sort of conclusions of any loose threads, all that was really challenging. And I did actually do a storyboard, another storyboard basically, so late in the process after this feedback. Oh my gosh. Just thinking about it, it actually is traumatizing me because I'm like, oh my gosh, it was it was just it was just totally wild. And then just on the post-publication side, I think the post-publication part of it has been the challenging part of it has been, frankly, doing some of the PR and getting the book out there on social media in particular. I think it is something that I had to, I'm still working on, but like it took a while for me to even just create my author account, make it public, all that, put yourself out there, which as a millennial, like I had was not as willing to do that. And but I think I found my lane and I have to I've like dabbled with TikTok and Instagram reels enough that like hopefully I'm putting out coherent content now at least. I just need to increase frequency, which is that's very challenging because to your point, life happens. And at least when you have a book that you're writing, feel like you're getting something from it, it's improving your focus, it's helping you think about a story. And I don't know, you just feel like productive and engaged and whatever. Being on social media and worrying about my next post, I still struggle with finding that or viewing that as like productive to my like overall well-being. I get that it's good for the book, but um, but I also spoke to an author, a published author, like at some point during this process when I was waiting for frankly between like rounds and submission process, and that was agonizing. No one prepares me for that late. And she was saying that she opted out of all social media, and she was like, you gotta find your own voice, and it's okay to opt out of all social media. So I think that might not have been exactly what my lane was. Like when I spoke to her, it was like really reassuring that's an option. I maybe needed to hear that was an option and that you could be okay. But I think finding my lane on on my sort of public presence has been challenging in that post-publication period. And but I'm working on it, also a work in progress and giving myself some grace because I'm a long way from where I was maybe six months ago on this. So I did.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

I can't imagine. And I loved what you shared. That was such a beautiful tip to organize feedback based to plot level feedback, chapter level feedback, line level feedback. So at least you have a way that you can sink into it in a system, perhaps a more systematic way.

unknown 35:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

And just going, oh my gosh, what do I do with all of this? All right. So this has been a long process to bring this book to fruition. What have you learned about yourself and your writing process? What's your takeaway from all of this when you step back?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

I really actually enjoyed the misery of having this hang over my head. Because therein lies the reason you are a writer. I think this idea it grounded me in so many ways. When that you felt like the world was upside down in different ways. Pandemic, post-pandemic, right? Like when there were still a lot of open questions and things that I that were beyond my control in the world around me or my personal life, I felt like this book and this story grounded me. And but I think the way that I might have grown in is that I uh have learned to listen to my own voice a little bit more. It was true, I would still go, I would 100% do everything the same way in terms of seeking out feedback and editing it and my next project a million different ways. And I really believe in having as many eyes on it and all of that. But I think that I will did not have as much of a sense of my own voice going through that feedback process uh as I did towards the end of it, frankly, including that major markup that I had. But now as I'm working on other projects, I can just see, I can feel it like that. Of course, uh having some self-doubt is again a very natural part of this process. And it's good because then it makes you question whether something is working or not working. But I also do feel a little bit more emboldened to to take risks, to just start writing. So I feel like I started off as much more of a plotter. And I think I might be a plancer now because I'm like, I think I could probably do I need to you know anyway. Maybe that's gonna be something I regret. But but I do think that I I'm starting to trust my voice more.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Yeah, and you're also your ability to let a story unfold, right? And then come back to it. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me there's this, I don't know if it's like a meme or if it's just something I saw, but it's that it's a voiceover and it says, So you think about the plan, you make the plan, then you throw away the plan. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's just sometimes that's just what we have to do. So just from what you've covered over the last few years, what do you think have been the most helpful resources for you to learn your craft?

SPEAKER_01 37:44

It's a really good question. I think there's been a couple of different things. One is obviously reading, which I uh mentioned, have mentioned a few times. I think just reading comps, reading middle grade, just being obsessed with all, right? And so it's really funny because a lot of times my friends will be like, What are you reading? And I'm like, I'm not going to tell you until I'm like a group of friends who actually also read middle grade. That has been actually really fun. Because I'm like, did you read this? So that's really incredible. But I think reading, the second thing is FCBI and making sure that it was plugged in with the different opportunities that they offer. For example, as I mentioned earlier, like they had this Oktoberfest where they had real agents review the first 50 manuscripts that are like submitted or something like that. Not obviously the whole manuscript, but the sampling. And so making use of that. Also, uh write a writing workshop that I attended. I think I alluded to that earlier too, where you have an opportunity to share your writing, but also talk a little bit more about craft and also the editing process. Because again, it's important to think about editing in a much more organized way, because otherwise it can feel very overwhelming and you don't know where to start. So I think that's been really helpful. And then finally, and I consider this to be like in some ways the most helpful resource has been my writer's group, my critique group. So as a circle of women now that have can we've got we've consistently met for 2020 to six years on a monthly basis, sharing resources, telling us what worked, what didn't work, and obviously reviewing each other's work consistently, right? So we feel like there's more continuity. They understand the project that's you're working on, can build off of it in a different way. But that has been the most tremendous resource for me because again, they've just consistently seen what I am working on, given me good feedback, we'll let each other know about different resources that we've used, a workshop that we're about to attend, or if one of us attends it, we'll share the materials or summarize the materials for one another. So I think that's some of the helpful resources that I feel like if anyone can use some of those, I think they'll be great.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah. And honestly, pretty much every kid lit author that I visited with, at least, has always mentioned SCBWI. And for anybody who doesn't know what that stands for, it's the society of uh, why do I always mess it up?

SPEAKER_01 40:09

It's a society of children's children's books, writers and illustrators.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Children's books, writers and illustrators. Thank you. Thank you. So definitely something I always include in the show notes so that you, as a listener, you can go look and look into it for yourself. Find and often belonging to those places leads to finding the community of writers that you're talking about. Because I'm sure that people are out there listening, going, that's nice. She's got a group of women, they get together once a month. How could I ever find that for myself? I have been in that seat where I think that exact same thing. And truly, it's by being a part of something that you meet other people that are a part of something.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yes. That's exactly right. I actually was introduced through SCBWI to my group because they put out a call that if you're interested in a writer's group, then send an email to such a person and then that person connected people based on geographic location or whatever grade level, or that's literally how the group came about. So SCBWI, I cannot speak highly enough of just the resources and opportunities that I think that they provide. And yeah, so grateful to them. That group is amazing. But I felt the same way. And I will just say that before joining FCBW, or sorry, before joining my I had joined SCBWI, but I had joined the writers' group in the first maybe 20 to 2020, frankly, when I joined to join the group, it was really hard because this can't be done in a vacuum. And having that accountability structure is really helpful. Obviously, the friendships that developing that are just priceless. And yeah, I really do think that maybe there's some people who can do writing in it on their own, and that's more power to them. But I think the vast majority of us really benefit from doing it in community with others.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I ask every guest who comes on the podcast, what wish would you like to impart to your fellow writers?

SPEAKER_01 42:06

I hope that you can complete the thing that you want to complete, right? If it's that query letter, if it's your most recent edit, if it's writing the book itself, I hope that you're able to accomplish the goal that you have set out for yourself. And that goal will look different for each person because we're in different parts of the journey. But know that you can do it. And uh and I sincerely hope that whatever goals you set out for yourself, that you're able to accomplish it and also take a lot of pride and joy in doing it.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Beautiful. Thank you so much. Would you please share anything that you're currently working on that you would like others to know about? And then where can listeners find you? And of course, your middle grade novel, Zaina Lost and Found.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Yeah. So currently working on a few projects, still middle grade. One is contemporary and one is historical fiction, but TVD on both. I'm moving a little bit faster on the historical fiction one. So I'm excited to just see where it goes, but no news to announce just yet. Follow me on my Instagram, which is Chefek underscore Han underscore author. Apparently, there's other Chevrolets, Stacey, just FYI. I would probably get to know them. And also on TikTok, Chefekjk, my website, shabbachon.com. These are all great places, but I would say Instagram is probably the place that I update the most. And just in terms of where you can find my book, it's now I don't even know, a lot of libraries. Yeah, so that's really cool. Support your local bookstore. That's a number one, bookshop.org. And of course, if your local bookstore actually has an odd shelf, that'd be really awesome. And then it is also available on Barnes and Noble and Amazon. So if that floats your both, that's cool too.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

All right. I will make sure to include all those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, for sharing your really beautiful journey with us and just being so open and honest. A lot of people will benefit from it, a lot of writers. So thank you again.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

Thank you so much for having the space for writers to come on and talk a little bit about their journey because I know that I would have benefited from hearing from someone who'd gone through it. And so thank you so much for making this resource available to aspiring and published writers.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah, we're all in it together, right? We're all in it together. Yes. Yeah. Thanks, Dacey. Thank you for listening to the Write It Scared podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. And please leave a review. Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories. Let's lift each other up. Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable. I'll see you next week.