SPEAKER_00 0:00

The first draft just has to exist. Because you can't edit anything. You can't make it better if you don't write something to begin with. So get something on the page. It can be gross. It can be not something that you would be happy with as a finished product. But it's not going to be the finished product. It's a draft. And it's okay for it to not be pretty. You just have to write it.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Welcome to the Write It Scared podcast. I'm your host, Stacey Fraser, a formally repressed creative soul, turned fiction writer, story editor, and author accelerator certified fiction book coach. At Write It Scared, we tell the truth about why writing a novel is so hard by acknowledging that most writers grapple with two stories. The one they want to put on the page to the best of their ability, and the often subconscious internal story that prevents them from doing it. This show is designed to help you identify and rewrite the internal narrative holding you back while you discover and write the story you want to tell and learn all the tools to help you do that successfully. Join me each week for a new episode where we'll talk about writing to deepen our understanding of the craft and of ourselves as writers. Writing a novel is an inside job that we do not do alone. Welcome to Write It Scared. I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in. Hi, writer. Welcome back to another episode of the Write It Scared Podcast. I'm your host, Stacey.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

First, let me apologize for the audio quality. My voice is shot. I've been struggling with a cold for I don't know how long. It just won't quit. So that is going to translate forward into some of the interviews that I've done and some of the introductions. But anyway, marching on. Today I am in conversation with author Julia Walton, and she is an absolute delight. And we talk about all the things from how motherhood changes us as writers to switching around and writing in different categories to getting rejected and how badly that hurts, and how to be accepting of the often very ugly words that come out of our first drafts and understanding that that's not the final product. Julia has some wonderful books out in the world, and her most recent, Weirdly Walter, is a middle grade that will be out in just a couple of days. It's available for pre-order now. And we also talk about how important pre-orders are for authors, and that it's a great way for you to support writers whose work you want to see more of. So let me give her a bio and then we will jump into the interview. Leah Walton is the award-winning author of Words on Bathroom Walls, which is now a major motion picture starring Charlie Plummer, Taylor Russell, and Andy Garcia. Her other books include Just Our Luck and On the Subject of Unmentionable Things. She has received an MFA in creative writing from Chapman University and a BA in history from UC Irvine. Julia lives with her husband and children in Huntington Beach, California. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Julia. I'm so excited to have you. I've read several of your books and found them both to be incredibly heartwarming and laugh out loud, funny, especially just our luck. Like, I, yeah, still am sort of laughing. But I gave you a bit of a bio, but would you please share a bit about your journey to becoming a writer?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

So I was in third grade when I realized that it was an actual job. Like I had a teacher who did the assignment, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? and kind of start thinking about it seriously. And I was around the time when I was reading like everything that Roll Doll had written, and just starting to pick up all kinds of like magical books. The fact that uh it could be a job was kind of like astounding to me that that was an option. But then as I got older, like as a kid, you look at it and you're like, yeah, that's what I want to be. Like, you want to be an astronaut, you want to be, you know, a uh veterinarian ballerina, and all of these things seem possible as a kid. And then you grow up, and then somehow you get to a point where you start to doubt yourself and you start to feel like, ooh, maybe those careers are for other people, and maybe those dreams are a little bit too big. I got to high school and I did really well in high school. I joined all the clubs, I did all the things, I got good grades, but I lost a lot of my confidence with writing. I'm not sure how that happened if I started looking at other people's writing and started thinking that, oh, like comparing myself, like it's, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. But I stopped looking at it seriously and started looking at it as kind of like one of those things for other people, like dreams that are maybe not attainable. Fast forward a few years, I got my degree in history it at UC Irvine, which I loved because I love a story, and history is all about stories, so and storytelling. And and then I graduated and 2007, there were no jobs to be had, like hiring freezes. It was rough. Got a job in insurance, hated it. We had a lot of like really awesome people, but I was so depressed in my insurance job that I realized like this is stupid. I gotta start doing things that I enjoy again. So that's when I started seriously picking up my notebooks again and seriously starting to write again, when I realized that I would have to save myself if I wanted to do anything else. So I did, but I wrote four books before Words on Bathroom Walls, and they were rejected by hundreds of agents. It was gnarly. Just like I did all the research for which agents were representing books that I was writing and where to send it and how to write a query letter. I made all the mistakes first, and then with those first four novels, they it went nowhere. Um I was so frustrated. And uh, I remember my husband um telling me, like, why don't you just I had been trying to write like fantasy stuff and I had been trying to write magical stories. And he's like, Well, you can still like that, but why don't you start with something real and write it from that? So that was his advice. And I was mad at him and I didn't want him to be right about that. I wanted to have my own stories. But I did. I started with something real at my desk while I was supposed to be working, and this voice, this angry, frustrated voice, Adam's voice, came out. And I wrote that draft in it was fast. I wrote it in like six months while holding a full-time job. And then I finished it, edited it, had a few friends come over for brunch and then read it and give me notes. And I picked up an agent within like within a month. Like that was very, very quick, but that was very quick. Like I tell, I always tell people, like that part was quick, but there were like years and years of rejection before that. So that's just the way that that came together. And then after she gave me a few minor, not not big notes, not big blind, like big changes to submit to um publishers, like we got an offer fairly quickly. But it's like it was almost just this was the timing. This was I had put in all of that work to begin with, and this was the story that was finally ready to be told. So it was rough, and it was a lot of self-doubt and a lot of rejection, like a lot of rejection. You never really get used to that. You get you get a little bit better at handling it, and then, but there's just the imposter syndrome is real even after you sell something. So yeah, that was the journey. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, absolutely. Like an overnight success is 10 years in the making, right? I can't remember who said that. And that seems to be pretty darn true of most guests that come on the show. It's like they've been at this for all time. Yeah. So the book that you mentioned there was Words on Bathroom Wils, and that was your debut that got turned into a major motion picture. Congratulations. That's amazing, by the way. And before, just for listeners, before we hit record, we were talking about that and how it came out during the pandemic.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

And it came out during the pandemic. And I'm so, I mean, I was just so proud of it. The screenwriter did such a great job adapting it, making changes that would make it a more visual experience for audiences, but also preserving the heart of the story. So it changed it, but made it really great for film. The actors were amazing. I was just so floored that I had planted this seed and made this story, and then other people were now taking it and running with it. It was, I mean, that's absurd. That's just absurd that things like that can happen. And just so proud. I mean, I was bummed at the time that we didn't get to do anything like super huge, like we didn't get to have like a red carpet event. We did a theatrical release, but it wasn't big because a lot of people were still afraid to head out and be in theaters. So that was a little bit sad. But the fact that it exists and that you can see it now, and it's like that's so cool. Like, I'm very, very proud.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

And and I'm just curious, like, how big was your husband's grin?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

The book is dedicated to him. So was he was probably the biggest push for that story. And it wasn't necessarily he just like he's not like you should write this book from a first-person narrative about a kid with schizophrenia, and you should, you know, take from your Catholic school. I like none of that. It was just like focus on something real and then just let it grow from that. So that's so cool. That was good advice, but yeah, for sure. Giant head after that.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Like just so you've written in the YA space, and I've read a couple of your books, the Just Our Luck, and then of course the words on bathroom walls, and I have the other one, which is on the subject of unmentionable things. Yeah. So what draws you to write in that YA space?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

I don't know. I think that's when there's the most if everything feels the stakes feel so high at that age. That's what always drew me to it, and that's what made me fall in love with YA as a reader. You know, you're reading like the Hunger Games. I remember devouring the Hunger Games and just and then also getting caught up in the Twilight saga when all the when the books came out and the movies came out, and it was just so much fun. I mean, Hunger Games was less fun, obviously, serious, but like the story was so gripping. But I mean, the protagonists were all young and it was all it was teenagers who are just like getting to the point where they are seeing the kind of person that they can be. They're starting to, I don't know, maybe see themselves truly for the first time. And that always really appealed to me, the fact that like these are like they're just stepping out into the world, like just barely, because the, you know, you're still with your parents and still rely on them for a lot of things. But it's a cool age. It's very like it's scary and fun and all the things that all the things all at once. I like them because they're highly emotionally driven, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

So they're very character-driven stories for and the other thing about YA is just these people, like you said, on the cusp. They're they're on the cusp of who am I in the world and how to what is my perception of that and and what is it really exactly. So I I just I don't know. There's something about it I absolutely love. And I've noticed that both the two books that I've read, the Just Our Luck and the Mirrors and Bathroom Wolves, they're written with your narrator standing at a place in the story that is farther down the timeline and they're reflecting back. They're more of journal entries, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Right. The first one is definitely all journal entries. And the second one, uh, just our luck is a little bit of that. It's still very reflective. That's always felt like a very comfortable way to tell a story for me. Even as a kid, like I enjoyed, I enjoyed journaling. I could never keep a journal for longer than a couple months before, like, yeah, this one's got lost all its juice into moving on to something else. It just feels natural, I think. Like telling yourself almost telling yourself a story, your future self a story, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I do it a lot that way for character development. Like I'll start my character looking back and to try to get my head in their backstory. But typically I'm writing like from the jump forward. Maybe I should try it.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I think it's fun. I also think it's fun because when I outlined for words on bathroom walls, the outline was all questions that I was asking the protagonist. And then you answer it as the person, or it turned into the story itself. That draft was easy to write. Other books that I've written were not. The draft was not easy to write. But for words on bathroom walls, it just I was either I was at that moment where all the frustration had built to like this, like it had to go somewhere, and then it just exploded. And it was just a series of answering questions and like getting to the point. And that's it was very, it was very fun. It was a very like, it was a fun way to finish a draft.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Now, do you still use that process today of asking questions and then outlining from that? What does your process look like?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

It's not the same for every story, and that possibly I blame my kids because before, like when I wrote Words on Bathroom Walls, I didn't have kids yet. That was before, like the book came out when my daughter was, I'm gonna say like 17, 18 months old. So I had already written it. All the stuff was done beforehand. It was a lot of library writing where it was quiet time and I could sit and I was completely not distracted. And what I did as far as outlining is I split it up into acts, like act one, act two, act three, and then I split it up into like seven chapters for each because I had read that that was how Suzanne Collins did it for Hunger Games and that her strategy came from screenwriting and that, and I had never taken, and at that point I hadn't taken any screenwriting classes. I didn't know anything about it, but I liked the structure of that. So I would do, I would set it up into three parts. I would draw like the bell curve where this is like the rising action and this is where these things have to happen. But then I would give myself some wiggle room to like, you know, stick stuff in different places if it needed to. But when I had the bell curve going, I would have a list of questions for each little notch, like questions that needed to be answered. And that's how I set up my outline. When I wrote other books, because I had babies and I was, you know, breastfeeding and I was taking care of them, and I was completely like, you know, turning into like this not monster, but like weird cave dwelling creature. I call it the momby. It's very like I'm like, was I awake? Was I did I shower? It was just you're a little bit gross and you're kind of like this creature. Yeah, I totally get it. So I wrote a lot on my phone. I wrote in the notes app on my phone, and then I would send it to my computer, and then I would put it try and I'd put it into a document. Because while I was nursing or something, if you're the most comfortable just laying on the couch, like once you get a good spot for baby, I'm not gonna get a computer out to do that. So I just had it on my phone. Yeah. So everything changed after that. I still asked myself questions and I still set up like a very loose outline, but oh my god, the drafts took longer because I would work when they were napping, but like if a nap ended and you weren't done, then you'd start it again the next day. And then the next day you would have to read everything that you wrote just before the nap ended. And it was just so slow. So yeah, now that my kids are in school, I'm really counting on some discipline to start this up again, to kind of be the writer that I was be a little bit before kids. I mean, I can never go back to her completely, but to pick up a lot of her habits again. It was such survival mode after my kids were born that I don't remember how to do it, like just like oh, this is lovely. I'm gonna get my tea and my snack, and I'm just gonna sit here and I'm gonna do this for a couple hours. Like, I don't remember that. So, how do you revise then? Do you have a system for revision? Once I send everything from my notes app to the computer, or you know, once I get like a full draft together, I print it and I write notes for my first like edit through. And it's very meth, like my first draft that I print is really more for me, like, good job, you finished something. And it's nowhere near finished. It's just like have lines in there like something funny happens here. Say something witty. And like there or there's a little scribble like, I'm sure we'll fill this with something. And it's just a lot of hope. But I print it and then I make notes like with colorful pens because those make me happy. Then I do my first line of revisions after that, and then I put it into my notebook, and then it starts turning into like an actual like working word document that I can take, you know, more care in the editing and more taking a more serious approach to adding stuff that the story's obviously missing.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Thank you for sharing a bit about your process and how it's evolved, you know, through before motherhood and and into motherhood and now yeah, just keeps keeps evolving, right? Just like you gotta when you're a mom, you just kinda gotta roll with it in some way. Okay. So you have a new book coming out, and this is a middle grade. So tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

The middle grade. I'm so excited about this one. It's a story about a boy who goes to live with his grandfather when his dad goes away for reasons that he doesn't understand at the beginning of the story. And when he goes to live with his grandfather, he's enrolled in an arts academy and he becomes the announcement kid and he gets the school, the lead in the school play, and kind of like develops these like fun, quirky friendships and is slowly figuring out like where his dad went and what happened. And it's a story about embracing the the people that we love are flawed, and that we can't like we can we can love them and we can be disappointed and we can be angry, but they're but these people are often, I mean, always, because people are flawed. They they just re it requires a different level of understanding. So the story kind of follows him as he embraces that. And I'm so excited to write for this age group because my eldest can finally read my stuff. So she's gonna be able to pick it up. And my author copies are supposed to arrive like any minute. My editor said that they were sent on Wednesday and they should be here any minute. Yeah, my daughters are excited because I told them I'm not gonna open it until you get home because we're gonna do an actual unboxing when we get when they get home. Never done it before. I've always just kind of like posted a stack of the books afterwards, but we'll do it. I'll let them record me opening it on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Oh, but it's so cool. It's so cool that they get to participate in your joy and your journey. Yeah, and and I love that storyline. What I picked up from it is just from what you shared was this idea that disappointment doesn't mean unlovable.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

We're all human. The story itself, it deals with addiction, but from a kid's perspective, understanding that there's a lot of heart, there's a lot of fun things in it. I taught at a uh art school for a while in the Creative Writing Conservatory at um OSHA at Orange County Performing Arts. And so I based this on like on a younger level of their because they were high schoolers.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah, and it sounds like a lot of your lived experience informs your pages.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yes. That is very true. Like for Wards on Bathroom Walls, the Catholic school storyline, that was all that was all from experience for sure. Um, all of the stuff that I had written about like the stations of the cross, about going to Catholic school and learning all of the prayers like that you had to memorize by heart. And then for just our luck, all of the experiences with anxiety, that was a hundred percent from my own experience. On the subject of unmentionable things, I would say that Phoebe was a lot of me, a lot of her personality, some was like was mine. And then with uh Walter in the newest book, he's an announcement kid, I was an announcement kid. So I I always take like a tiny bit of me, and then I kind of build around that.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah. Does that make it hard sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Or easier? Maybe it makes it hard emotionally when you're writing the character, and then you realize, oh, this is happening to them and I'm sad because this is how I felt, or this is happening to them, and I feel responsible or guilty or any of the not so fun emotions because I connected with their story. But I think that's good as a writer. You're supposed to feel those things. And if you don't feel those things, then the reader's not gonna feel those things. Like there's a quote, no tears in the writer, no tears in the reader. I don't know who said that, but it's neither, but I've heard it. Yeah, so you know, that's also very true. And I don't know that I'm gonna do that forever. I might write, I don't know, something from a completely different perspective and find another way to connect with the character. But for now, like a lot of my stories are this is something that I've lived, and this is something that I feel like I could tell in a way that other people might appreciate.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah. Oh, and I do. One of my favorite quotes, and I'm not sure who said it either, is something like, you know, our medium is emotion as writers. Our medium is emotion. It's not actually the words or the pins or the the paper or the keys. It's emotion and being able to translate that and give it to other people, which I just always thought was cool. So that's kind of like my lofty goal, my hope that the my writing can do. So, in that vein, you know, a big part of this podcast is dedicated to helping other writers overcome like unhelpful internal narratives that they might be holding that aren't serving them. And those are the the worries and the fears and the paralysis and the who am I and that kind of stuff. So, in that vein, can you share a time about when the writing has gotten difficult? Difficult for you when you struggled and what that was like.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Before I wrote words on bathroom walls, I was at a very low point. Very low, where I thought, I'm just not, I'm not gonna do this anymore. This is just like, why would I set myself up for the heartbreak? Because it was heartbreaking. It was nonstop rejection. You feel like somebody's like peeling off your skin, and then you're just sitting there and like, I'm fine. I'm fine. And it's you're not. It sucks. I remember one afternoon, and I was in my insurance job, really feeling like I was living the dream. And I remember getting, because I had started sending out query letters for a novel that never got published. I got five rejections in one afternoon. And they happened like, and this is not, and that's unusual because when as most people, when they send out their queries, like you stagger them, and then you wait like well, whatever, like four to six weeks, people respond, or they don't respond at all, or they send you cryptic responses saying, I liked this, but sorry. One guy sent me a rejection that said, I'm sorry, I don't like cats. And it was weird because there were no cats and that I sent this man. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, he's gotta have mixed this up with someone else. Yeah. Anyway, so that afternoon I had like five rejections, and I'm not exaggerating. It was just opening it and then getting that moment of someone responded, then, oh, then, and just I was I was emotionally exhausted by the end of that day. And I got home and I remember feeling just so defeated. And I think the only advice that I can give to that, because that was a rough patch and it didn't go away immediately because I've carried that with me for a while. Um, that was what about that time that I was starting to look into writing programs and going back to school and figuring out, like, like, well, if you're not gonna like, because at that point I'm thinking, well, if I'm not gonna make it as a writer, then what do I want for the rest of my life? Like, what's gonna make me happy? And I knew I wanted to be surrounded by books. So, do I go back, do I go into library sciences? Do I go back and get my MFA? Like, what is the path to keep me surrounded by books for the rest of my life? Not just books, but books, stories, people who also enjoy these things. And that's when I decided to start looking into MFA programs and going back to school. So, and then shortly after I made that decision, I started writing words on bathroom walls. So I was in my MFA program for maybe two months before I got representation for that book, because I had already written the first like draft and then had it critiqued by friends and I was ready to start sending it out, and it all kind of fell into place. But I think the the reason that it did is because I made that decision that if I'm not gonna be a writer, like if that never happens for me and I keep submitting for the rest of my life and nothing comes of it, like how are you going to still find purpose? What is going to make you happy? What's going to make you feel like you're connecting with the world? And it's if you're surrounding yourself with stories. And that's what that was the choice that I made. Like, if even if this never works out and nobody ever wants to read any a single sentence that you ever read, at least you're going to be surrounded by books and at least you're going to find your way into a life that that you can create that happiness. And that's what I thought at the time.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

So with you getting your MFA, I mean, you already had a book in the can. Well, I didn't get that.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

So I had when I when I when I started the program, I had like a partial draft. Right. So a couple months into the program, I was finished with that first draft. So it's it all just kind of happened around the same time. But when I started the program, I had already, I was already, you know, into words on bathroom walls and writing it and trying to develop that story. So did your MFA help you develop it? Or how do you feel about that? So I don't know that it helped me develop it, but it made me feel like I was a part of a writing community, which was really like for my confidence and for the place that I was in my life. That was really important to me. It made me feel like I was a part of something, like there were other people who were also doing the same thing and also trying to, you know, connect with stories and create stories. So that was important. I was going to finish that book no matter what at that point. I think that what it did is it gave me the confidence to write it the way that I wanted to write it and to finish it no matter what. So yeah, I think it was a good place for me and I think that it did help at the time. But I don't think you necessarily need an MFA to come to be successful. It's like if that's a choice that you make, make sure that you're making it for the right reasons and not you're not saying, um, I need this MFA to get published, because a lot of people with an MFA do not always go on to get published. So it's really just a personal choice. And if that's something that will ultimately help you become the writer that you want to be, then go for it. But don't make a choice because you think that it's like a direct path to anything, because there are no direct paths anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Exactly. If you're looking for the steps one, two, three, four, five formula to do really anything in life. I have always been that person. Like if you just show me the steps, right? I love that. I I love that. Sign me up. Yeah. But unfortunately, I have to factor in the fact that I'm a human being.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Right. And not a robot. It's so annoying when you have to factor that in. It's like, oh they don't want to exist on pure emotion and all, but you do. Like a lot of it is like, yes, you have to account for the fact that you're human and flawed and beautiful in all of those ways, but and the world doesn't work the way that you want it to. It's sometimes opportunities come at weird times, and sometimes there's a little bit of luck involved. Like there's just those things to consider.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Yeah, I love that. I think it's one of the greatest lessons that I continuously have thrown in my face in the most uncomfortable way, is like you're this it's not about what you want. But then I think having kids has really taught me that. It's like, you know, you have to find a way to deal with life on life's terms. So when you look back on your writing life after four books that didn't go anywhere and querying and getting all those rejections after words on bathroom walls, what does self-doubt look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 28:25

I guess self-doubt is still there. It does look a tiny bit different because I have confidence in my ability to write a story. But like with writing a middle grade, I'd never written a middle grade before. Like, what if that, like, I'd already built up readers that were in the YA space and you're going backwards? Like, you're not gonna like bring down all the people that you had brought with you to the YA space down to middle grade. So what are you doing? I think you just have to write the stories that you want to write. And sometimes they'll work out and sometimes they won't. You're still gonna doubt it as you're writing it. But I think the point is just to do it anyway, if it's in you to write. Like with any new thing that I want to write, like if you want if I've looked into like wanting to write uh screenplays and plays and all kinds of stuff like that. But I've never I have no experience with that. I've just read a bunch of them and have started reading all of the books that you're supposed to read that teaches you like what to look out for. But I don't know anything about that. And like kind of like being a student again. I like looking into all of these things that are new and exciting. And I think it's okay to doubt yourself a little bit as long as it doesn't stop you from doing the thing. I think it keeps you from being insufferable, too, the self-doubt. Just a tiny bit. Like you don't want to be like, well, of course, I'm gonna do this and that, and blah blah blah. Shut up. Like nobody cares.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Just do it or don't. Oh my gosh, that's really funny. Yeah, there's no video on this, but if you could have seen her face, that was great. I loved it. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. What would you say the best piece of writing advice you think you've ever ever received? If you could boil it down, what do you what do you hold on to? What gets you through when it's hard?

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Well, it's not original. It's my editor told me this when I was trying to write just our luck, because the second book is really, really hard. I don't know how many people say this, but the second book is harder than the first one because the second book is after you've sold the first one and they're expecting things of you, and you're not writing it by yourself anymore. Other people sometimes look at it as you're writing it, like here's some chapters, here's this, and then they give you, you know, thoughts. And it's hard. So I remember feeling stuck and completely like nothing I was writing was as good as what I had written before, and then I would never match that again. My editor's like the first draft just has to exist because you can't edit anything, you can't make it better if you don't write something to begin with. So get something on the page. It can be gross, it can be not something that you would be happy with as a finished product, but it's not going to be the finished product. It's a draft, and it's okay for it to not be pretty. You just have to write it. So the best advice is that the first draft just has to exist.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

What would you like to impart to your fellow writers out there who might be struggling? They might be on book four and about to say, fuck this. Or maybe they are writing their second book and it's tough. Just what kind of what wish would you like to impart to your fellow writers who might be struggling?

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Oh gosh, I guess I would just say be kind. Be kind to yourself. It's so it is so lonely. It is very, very lonely when you're struggling with a book. Nobody else understands that. You can tell even people who love you very deeply will not be able to understand, unless they're writers and they've gone through the same thing, they won't be able to understand this level of frustration because you put so much time and effort into creating something that wasn't there before. Be kind to yourself. If this is what you are meant to write, then it will come out at some point, as long as you keep going. That doesn't mean you have to like, I'm gonna sit here for three hours and I'm gonna, I'm not leaving until I get this out, because that's not always effective either. What might be helpful is to put a story away for a couple weeks. Do some other things that are also creative and give yourself some space from a story. I mean, I'm not saying that you should go and like chase plot bunnies for a million different stories because then nothing gets done, but give yourself a break. Give yourself some time if something isn't working out, if you're not feeling connected to the story anymore, or if you're feeling like something isn't working out the way that you think it should, be kind to yourself. Give yourself a break. I mean, I think that's the most important thing to hear in that moment is that you have if if you're writing us this story, whatever story it is, everyone is gonna say that like all all stories have already all been written. They've all already happened. Right. There's nothing truly original, nothing truly original, but nobody's ever written heard this story from you. So you can't do it wrong. Just be patient with yourself, be kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

I recently polled my audience and asked them how good they were about acknowledging their their effort. Not necessarily achievement, but their effort, right? And it's like, how good are you at acknowledging your efforts and giving yourself credit for the effort you put forth? Say, I got like this, big thumbs down, like the buddy, and myself included. And you know, the thing is, it's like writing a novel is it's heavy lifting emotionally, intellectually, physically, if you don't get out of your damn chair, which I forget to do sometimes. You know, it's it's hard. And so I definitely think we need to be better about giving ourselves credit. Like you said, be gentle with yourself, be kind, love on yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

And even it doesn't have to be big. It doesn't have to be like a well, like you know, the we talk, we laugh about little tree culture and like, well, I'm gonna get myself loot tree for like making it thick today without slapping anybody. Like, fantastic. But maybe don't get mad at yourself for wanting to watch that show before bed instead of like diving into more work. Right. Or maybe go for a walk, maybe make a plan for a favorite meal. Like those kind of things are small, but also that's rewarding yourself too. Just like take a minute to acknowledge that you are further along than the you of two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

I think that's a beautiful place to wrap up. So, what are you currently working on? And where can listeners find you?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

I am currently working on another middle grade. I have printed a draft. I've got colorful pens and I've started making notes. So I'm excited, but it's still very messy and has a lot of work. Uh, that it needs a lot of work. But I'm happy about it. And I mean a bunch of other small projects that I play with when I get stuck with editing this story. But yeah, another middle grade is what I foresee coming next. You can find me on Instagram. That's really the only place that I am now. You can also find me on my website, is juliawalton.com, that my husband lovingly updates like once every six months or whenever I ask him to. There's a Goodreads giveaway for Weirly Walter right now. So head on over there and sign up for that. You can pre-order, which please do because it's really helpful for authors to for publishers to see that authors are getting pre-orders. And you can do that through your favorite indies at bookshop.org, or you can do it straight directly through their websites too. And if you do pre-order, then you can DM me on Instagram and I can send you a bookmark. Would you mind sharing why it's important? Like the pre-orders phase is important. What I've been told by people who know more than I do is that the pre-orders, all the pre-orders that happen before your first week's sales go towards that first week. So, like the big lists that come out, that's also included in that. So it can be a good push. It also kind of gives um publishers more confidence in your work if they see a lot of pre-orders coming in and there's excitement about the book. And if you have other work that you would like to sell to said publishers, then they'll see, hey, there are readers here who are looking forward to that. So important on that level. Oh, or library pre-orders are also really good too. So if you go to your library and you go to your catalog, if it's not already there, then you can go to purchase request, and then you put in like your library card information and all that, and you can make a purchase request. And that is also really helpful for authors. Um and Weirdly Walter has just been selected as a junior library guild selection. Um, we're getting good reviews. So, you know, go into your library database and add us.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

I'm excited for you. I'm excited for Walter. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing your experience and being honest and real and vulnerable. And you are absolutely a delight. And I can 100% say I love all of your books, all the ones that I've read, and I can't wait to read the rest. So thank you, and I will see you next time. Thank you. This was really fun. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Thank you for listening to the Ride It Scared podcast. If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. And please leave a review. Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories. Let's lift each other up. Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable. I'll see you next week.