Stacy: Thank you so much for coming on the show today, Jennie. It's just a pleasure to have you here. Your my mentor in, in so many ways. 

This podcast is dedicated to connecting writers with the voices and messages they need to continue to grow and move forward on their journeys.

And I can think of no better way to do that than to talk about book coaching. 

Jennie: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Stacy: Would you please share with our listeners a bit more about your journey to becoming the CEO of Author Accelerator? What did that look like and what does the work entail 

Jennie: Well, I was a writer who became a writing instructor at a traditional workshop-based program and I became a book coach because I was frustrated with that process. You couldn't give writers the attention they really needed. They didn't get what they really wanted. What people really need, what writers really need and want is someone paying attention to their work.

I was not talking about the theory of craft or giving them prompts, but like, how is my work? How is my creative process? What, what am I doing? Well, what can I do better? And I began book coaching to give them that, to give them support over time, and to teach them what they needed to know about their writing.

And I had a great deal of success as a book coach. And I also just loved it. And after a while, my business became too busy and I had to do something. So I thought about hiring other people to work with me. And I did. In order to do that, I needed to come up with a training program to show them what I was doing and to show them how working with the writer over time is different than coming in and editing a finished manuscript.

So I developed this training program, which I thought was just going to be for me to get these people into my system and program. However, the training program became its own thing, taking on a life of its own, and Author Accelerator was born. We now have certified more than 220 coaches in fiction, nonfiction, and memoirs all over the world.

And the way I put it is that we help book coaches run better businesses so they can help writers write better books. 

Stacy:I love that. And I was the hundredth certified coach. 

Jennie: I remember that. We were just on pins and needles, like, who's it gonna be? And it was you.  

Yeah. I mean, just to just kind of luck of the draw there, but It's so cool.

230 some coaches from all over the world in fiction, memoir, and nonfiction. That's, that's amazing. 

Jennie: We have a great number of coaches in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, as well as in the United Kingdom. I mean, just in the last few weeks, we've had people sign up from Denmark, South Africa, and Serbia.Like what?  

Stacy Yeah. That's amazing. And you know what that means? Is that look at all the new resources available for writers.

Jennie: It's a really powerful way to do your best work. Writing is a very solitary thing, as you well know. And it's not, it's not lonely. It's solitary.You're usually people love to sit in a room and write. They, they fight for that time and space in their life and, and they enjoy it. So having a book coach is not necessarily It's, it's not about, Oh, I'm not alone anymore. You are alone when you're writing. You're in that room by yourself trying to get the story out of your head and onto the page.

Stacy: And as a person who has worked with Author Accelerator certified book coaches and continues to do so I can't, I can't agree more. I mean, yeah.  It's the reason I became one  because of you like the 

Jennie: experience because of the 

Stacy: Experience of being coached and how much I learned and how much I grew.You're right. The writing itself is solitary,  but in that we get in our heads all the time and get in our own way and, and having a coach as a sounding board, as someone to, you know, take what you've got. And apply a fresh perspective to it,  you, you'll walk away understanding so much that you could never have seen on your own. 

Jennie: It's really true. It's really true. It's powerful. 

Stacy: It is. And there's what you said before about, you know, it's so different than being on the receiving end of editorial feedback from a developmental editor. You know, that's very one and done. And sometimes you'll get examples, you know, to be able to apply what they're trying to direct you to do. But there's no way to work through that in real-time. 

Jennie: Right. 

Stacy: Yeah. So it's a big difference. And also, you know, the, the tools and techniques that, A writer may need while they're drafting  totally different than when they're revising. 

Jennie: So true. I always think about those TV shows that show creative processes like Project Runway or the Great British Baking Show or these shows that where there's a very tangible thing people are making and you can see them doing the thing. Like here they are, Frosting the cake or they're sewing that seam and, and the mentors come in and, you know, what are you doing? Or Don't you see this? Or, you know, I love those shows and, and I, I wish that writing that you could show that kind of thing. 'cause that's what's happening with a book coach. But you can't really show it.

It's so deadly boring. It would make the worst tv. But that, that is the same kind of true thing, right.  

Stacy: It's so true. And there are pieces of the process that are, it kind of reminds me of medicine. Actually, when I was when I was a an intern I, I would watch my, my preceptor  do this intake. And. Inside of them, they would be going through this process, this differential process of what the, what the issue could be.

That's not something you can see. And I was, I always thought I'm never going to figure out how to compartmentalize and get to this  to arrive at. At this conclusion like that, how do they do that? And so I think writing is a lot like that. As you go, you begin to internalize just the working pieces of it.

And so, but it begins by. Breaking down the pieces and the mechanics of it. And then the more you do it, the better you get at incorporating it all together at the same time as you write. 

Jennie: The other thing is that the that story you just told about the intake on the medical side, a book coach can learn to read the writer as well.

So it's not only about the writing. I'm often. On a call with a writer and I can see in their body language, in their behavior, in their voice, in everything about them when they're getting sort of deflated or weighed down by something. And when they're like, no, that's, that's it. That's, that's the story I want to tell her.

That's what I wanted that scene to be, or that's what I wanted you to feel in that moment. And so I'm often, especially at the part that you're talking about, where We're at the very beginning. We're trying to figure out what is this book the writer wants to write? What is, what is their intention? What do they see?

What are they called to? What is their reason for doing that? And, and when we're playing around with those questions and those ideas, I can absolutely see it in the writer. When. They light up and that's one of my favorite things is to read the writer 

Stacy: I had a writer who had had a developmental edit and  They came to me and they were like, I don't know what to do with this.I don't know how to apply this, I don't know how to I don't even know if this is the right thing and I remember asking what is the direction in the story that you want to tell? And it wasn't the direction that the developmental edit was pointing them. And it took a little bit of digging into, well, what do you really want to say?

What's important to you? And what is the message here that you want to convey? And,  it wasn't about domestic strife, really, it was about something or, or, or domestic abuse. It was about something completely different, something completely hopeful, which put that book in a whole different genre and category, right?

And the second that writer hit on that was like, Oh,  Oh, I, I decide,  I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. You decide the direction of your creative work. And yeah, that moment when their face lights up in their body language, just like,  it's a huge sigh and a huge relief. And then, and then it's, then it's off to the races too.

Jennie: I know. It's so good. It's such. It's such fun work to help people bring their, their dreams to life. And I, it never ceases to amaze me how much fun it is and how satisfying it is. When it's not even your own thing you're making, it's facilitating somebody else. And that in inspiration piece is a huge part of being a book coach too.It's, it's fun to help other people find their thing. 

Stacy: It is.  Yeah. And embrace the belief that they have the ability and can learn everything that they need to learn to write a book that they're proud of. 

That's what I love. So, tell us a little bit more specifically about how Author Accelerator helps writers.

Jennie: Yes. so coaching usually happens over three months or six months or nine months or sometimes even longer. And there's a regular check in rhythm that happens where the coach is looking at the work and then speaking to the writer. So that's what we were talking about where, where you can see that's because there's usually it's usually virtual zoom call where you're, we're going over the what the coach saw in the work.

What I always say is that the result is a manuscript that feels three X or five X further along than it would have been if the writer didn't have that person by their side. So it's a very interactive process, and it happens over a long period of time. 

Stacy: And the writing itself gets tighter as the work goes forward, so the back end of the book is often a lot stronger. 

Jennie: Yes. Yeah. Then what writers get stuck in is when they're getting ready to pitch and they, they'll say, Oh, well, things get really good in chapter eight or chapter 13 is where stuff really starts to come together and the book gets really good.It's like, okay, that's not going to fly. We need it to be great from the very beginning. 

Stacy:  And it's painful to let go of that work, you know? Yeah. 

Jennie: Yeah. It is. 

Stacy: , I read your book A Writer's Guide to Agony and Defeat.  

Jennie: Oh, wow. Not many people do.  It's such a terrible title, but, I'm adamant that I'm not going to change it.

Stacy: It's a great book. I mean, there is a truth bomb on every single page. There's really any, any writer out there get it because it, yeah, it's, it's, it's not a comfortable read, but it is a reality read. Right. And I don't know why I was, why was I going there? It was something to do with the idea.

Oh, I think I just read that piece last night about,  Your book's not starting in the right place, but you're gonna spend six months trying to, like, massage the first six chapters.  Right. You know, because you don't want to let go of that work. It's like, no. Do yourself a favor. And I think that what to fix was do yourself a favor, you know, cut off the dead weight.This is what writers do. 

Jennie: Right. Right. 

Stacy: So yeah, but it's a great book, please. Well, 

Jennie: thank you.  

Stacy: It's called The Writer's Guide to Agony and Defeat, and I'll put a link to it in the show notes, if that's fine with you. 

Jennie: Oh, that'd be amazing. No I, I frequently get feedback that the title's a little grim, that maybe I want to write something and write a title that's a little bit more hopeful, but I'm like, no, it's about, I think the subtitle It's the 43 worst moments in the writer's life and how to get over them. It's like, that's not a happy, that's not a happy thing. 

Stacy: Yeah, no, this is, this is called a reality check. This is what it is. Yeah. It's filled with joy. But it's, it's also not. 

Jennie: Yeah, exactly. And if you want to stay in it, you better figure out why.

We talked about how book coaching works and how it helps writers. If a writer is looking for a book coach, what should they consider? What should they think about first?

Jennie: Well, book coaching is an apprentice business, meaning you learn how to do it by doing it. So I would look for someone who has coached other writers, and who's actually done that work. It's one of the reasons why our students are doing practicums in our training program at Author Accelerator. They're actually working with clients because you have to; it's different from working with an editor.And there are skills that go along with that. So I would look for somebody that, has, been coaching. And as with anything, the very best way to find someone is word of mouth. Find a writer that you know, who has had a good experience and can recommend coaches, I think that's the very best way, and another place to start is at https://www.authoraccelerator.com/matchme  We have a searchable directory of our certified coaches. So you know that those people hav been well vetted and you can search on a lot of different criteria to find someone there. You know, there's a lot to be careful of out there.

There are all kinds of bad actors in every industry. And, you know, so a huge part is trusting your gut.  trying to get into a short conversation with that person on a discovery call or a small package where you can see how they work what they're like and what their vibe is.  Listening to a podcast like this is a great way to get to know a coach to know, do I like this person?Do I like their vibes? Do I like their philosophy? So if somebody has a newsletter to follow their newsletter or listen to them on a. A podcast or some sort of presentation just to cause vibe is a huge part of it. There's a lot of book coaches that can do good work, but you want somebody who gets what you're writing, who gets you who works at the same kind of speed and energy.You know, there's some. Very quiet, introverted writers who want somebody very gentle. And, and there are other people who I just met with a writer this week. It was like, she's got five months till her publisher's deadline. She's, you know, stuck. She wants the tough love, like bring the tough love.

You know, so it really depends on where you are and what you're looking for. But to trust that that instinct that you have and to find the person that just feels right after the criteria of, do they know what they're doing?  

Stacy: Yeah, it's it's a relationship and you know, and in that there's a lot of trust in this relationship.And so take your time. Definitely take your time. I would also add, make sure you're finding somebody that. That works in your genre. Oh, sure. Yeah. That understands like the, the the genre conventions and obligations to help you to, so that you can, you know, write the best book possible. If, if the intention is not just for self expression, if the intention is actually for this book to be read by other people.

So what are some common problems that can occur when a writer and a book coach work together and what is the best way to avoid them? 

Jennie: I think all of those can be summed up under the category of expectations.So making sure that the expectations of what that coach is going to do for you, what they're not going to do for you, what they're able to do for you. You know, some people think, well, a coach is going to get me an agent or get me a book deal or get me on a bestseller list. Those are not appropriate expectations. And so It's what the writer is expecting. It's what the coach is expecting from the writer. You know, the coach expects the writer to meet their deadlines, rise to the occasion of this work, and show up. And, you know, so there's expectations on both sides. So, the best way to avoid problems that come from those expectations is  just to be talking about them all the time and talking about how is this going? How is this working? How are you feeling?  If you're as the writer you're expecting some sort of editing,  you know, a lot of writers don't understand the difference between the different kind of. edits.

So, you know, there are copy edits, proofreading, developmental edits, and high-level review feedback. There's a lot of different kinds of editorial feedback that you can get on a piece of writing. And often writers expect a book coach to do one thing and then they don't get that and they're confused.

So the way forward there is to say, well, gosh, I was expecting that you were going to comment on every line and fix every comma. And I mean, hopefully, that gets ironed out before you get into the actual coaching deadlines, but you know, to say, this is what I expected, and this didn't happen, not to let that go on. Because it may be that you're in the wrong process, or you're working with the wrong person or it's the wrong thing. So, It's just talking about what you're expecting, what you want, what you hope for, what you're, what outcome you're seeking and, and for the coach to be really clear about how they work and what they can and can't control and what they will and won't do and where the boundaries are all those things.So like any good relationship, as you, well said, it's, constant communication. 

Stacy: Constant communication, setting expectations up front, continuously talking about them, and doing check ins. 

How's this going? Yeah. how is this going? Yeah. And I think what you said before, jumping on a discovery call, getting people on a call and talking through the process and it sometimes even doing a sample edit.

I offer samples for writers that come to me for for revision or even when they begin the book publishing process, I asked to see at least five pages of everybody's writing. You know, so  yeah, so there's a lot of ways to do it, but yeah, I think you nailed it. Like setting up the expectations out the gate.

Jennie: Yeah, definitely. 

Stacy: 100%. So are there any myths about book coaching that you want to bust here? 

Jennie: Sure. Two come to mind, top of mind. One is that people sometimes worry that a book coach is going to hijack their story in some way, either steal it and run off into the sunset or somehow make their story something different than they want it to be.

A good book coach is 100 percent not going to do either of those things. First of all, nobody wants your story. Only you can write your story. You can take an idea, but you can't take the execution of that idea. I mean, there would be that person who would be such a bad actor. It's hard to even fathom that.

Good book coaches are there to help you tell your best story, not to make it what they want it to be. So that's one myth. And then the other, I would say, is that people sometimes think that the only reason to hire a book coach is for some payoff, some return on investment.

And most of the time, the deep satisfaction that writers get from working with book coaches has nothing to do with that. It has to do with finding their voice,  claiming their voice, coming into their power and authority as a writer. And, when that experience happens, it's, invaluable. So the myth that the, the reason you come to a book coach is because you're going to get your money back or you're going to make more money on the book that you produce is, is not is not usually what the outcome actually is about.

You may get that. That may be a byproduct of doing the work, but the real power of doing the work is in that internal shift that writers experience.  

Stacy: That was well said. As a writer yourself, what is the best piece of writing advice you've ever received? 

Jennie: Oh gosh, there have been so many, but I will share the most recent one because it was hilarious.And it was from one of Author Accelerator's certified coaches who I hired to help me write the third in my blueprint for a book series. So, a blueprint for a book is a 14-step process. That is a method of inquiry at the very start of a book project that a writer does to get their idea out of their head and onto the page.

And I had written the fiction one and the nonfiction one, blueprint books. And I was embarking on the memoir one, and I hired Barbara Boyd to help me. And I, I told her at our first deadline I didn't need to do the blueprint for my own work because I was writing a blueprint about the blueprint  I'd already done two books on this.

I certainly didn't need to do a blueprint for, for this book. And she said, Oh yes, you do.   She made me follow my own process, which was extremely meta. I was doing a blueprint about the blueprint; honestly, she saved that book from absolute despair. It was going in a bad direction. I had not done the work of who is my ideal reader?

What is my point? I thought that I didn't have to. So I thought that was great advice. Follow my own process. 

Stacy: That's fantastic. I also wanted to say that I listened to your interview with Rachel Heron on her Unstuck series. Oh, sure, sure, yeah. That was so, so good, so refreshing, and so completely inspiring.

We all struggle, and we all forget. Yeah. We all forget, like, the pieces of the process that worked. You know, we, that's a human thing, and it is to feel like we can skip over things. Yeah. You know, cause we're just, we're in a hurry, and we want to get there. So yeah. We think we know. It's like, I know. 

Jennie: I don't need to do that hard work. I don't need to do that. This is going to be easy this time. 

Stacy: Right. Right. Yeah. So having people around us who remind us to reflect and to call us out when it's not working is I love it.  

Stacy: Okay. So, what's the best book that you read recently? 

Jennie: Oh, I read Dear Edward by Ann Napolitano. I'm like the last person in the universe to read this book.

It's about a 12-year-old boy who survives a plane crash. I actually read it on a trip. So I was reading it on planes. I was on long plane rides, which you might think would be a poor idea, but it was such a beautifully written book, so well structured, and so hopeful, ultimately hopeful.

I just really. Loved it. I loved the experience of reading it. I want to go back and break it down. And there are so many lessons to pull from it. I just I thought it was extraordinary.  

Stacy: Do you find that you're analyzing as you read, or do you get pulled into the story the first time? 

Jennie: I'm completely analyzing.

I'm ruined for reading, actually. And so it's a rare book that can really pull me out.  And make me forget about real life.  This one, this one did most of the time. Really that's part of the reason why I was so taken with it. I was just so in it and that does not happen to me very often. 

Stacy: That is so true.

I am ruined for reading also. I have to intentionally turn off that analytical piece of my brain when I read at night. And sometimes I can't, but, When I find that all of a sudden a chapter, two chapters or three has just blown by, I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's the book that I need to go back and pay attention to.

Absolutely. So, what is your wish for all the writers out there? What would you like to impart to them? 

Jennie: To take yourself seriously as a writer, you cannot do this halfway. You have to go all in, and when you do, everything gets better. 

Stacy: Oh, thank you Jennie. Would you like to share anything that you're currently working on with our listeners? 

Jennie: Well, you alluded to the Rachel Heron interview, which was about my finishing the curriculum for our memoir certification course, which is actually launched. It's a year-long curriculum. Thank goodness, nobody will have caught up to me and found out that I didn't finish before launching it, except if you listen to that podcast.

But we do now have certification in fiction, nonfiction, and memoir, which I'm absolutely thrilled about. If you're interested in becoming a book coach, you can learn all about that at bookcoaches.com /ABC. I think that's the best place to learn.

There's a series of free videos about book coaching on there. And I would love it if anybody listening is inspired to do that, to check it out. Stacy, you're such an inspiration. I love how you've gone out there and built a whole new career, a whole new business, and a whole new life, and it's so inspiring to me to watch what you and the other coaches are doing.

I just. I'm so thrilled for you. And I, I think you're just an amazing advertisement, for book coaching.  

Stacy: Well, thank you, Jennie. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, for your vulnerability, honesty, integrity, and, as always, willingness to stand up for what you believe. That's inspiring to me.  Thank you. And I think it inspires many, many more people. So I will drop all the links into the show notes about book coaching and where to find out more about you and Author Accelerator.

Jennie: Well, thank you for the good work you're doing and for inviting me on.